Norman Kember-honourable and brave or a bit of a pompous arse??

[moondog]

I'm plumping for the latter.....

Surely bearing Witness to the events happening in Iraq is in the long and honourable tradition of the historic Peace Churches - Mennonites, Quakers etc.?

I'm sure that the sort of highly trained special forces soldiers who do this kind of rescue are extremely brave, but also probably egotists (sorry, but I expect you have to have a certain cluster of personality traits to be interested in this sort of career) ....and a bit lacking in empathy.

Clearly he should have prostrated himself at their feet and thanked them profusely the second he was liberated (no - he wouldn't have been in shock at all would he!!)

HMC Thank god someone has said this at last I feel that those in the armed forces know what's expected of them when they go into that career as do firefighters and policewomen.

oops that should say poicemen/women.

ruty - I think you have said what I was trying to say - but more concisely !

It reminds me of Michael Moore in Farenheit standing in front of the House of White, asking Republican Senators passing by whether they had children serving in Iraq. Unsurprisingly none did.

When he asked whether they would sign a form he was holding to put the names of their sons and daughters down so that they could be recommended for active service in Iraq, they all looked at their watches and said they were in hurry and walked away very very quickly !

Such brave honourable men (and women).

White House - sorry still sleepy !

Well arguably koolkat,we choose a profession and stick to it.
It is a nonsense to moan that politicians are out fighting wars.Of course they're not,that's a soldier's job (and last time I checked,the streets of Britain weren't full of press gangs,ready to put hapless proles into half Nesons and kidnap them.)

Your analogy makes no sense.
It's like a butcher whingeing that I don't know how to dismemeber a carcass.
Of course I don't. It isn't the job I chose!
In the same vein,I'd love to see him have a bash at what I do!

(Am no fan of Bush myself-or the Iraqi war.)

ungrateful, pompous old codger imo

Definitely ungrateful. The only reason he said thank you was because such a big deal was made in the media about the fact he hadn’t thanked his rescuers. He’d already given three press statements before he arrived home, maybe it’s possible that he was initially too overwhelmed to thank those who had rescued him, but he was given three opportunities to do so while stil in Iraq, it wasn’t till he reached Brittish soil, where he was no doubt advised by someone well educated in the art of publicity, that it might be a wise move to thank his rescuers if he didn’t want any more bad press.

And “he’d initially said he didn’t want the military to intervene in the event he was captured”, well how easy is it to say that you want no military intervention when you know full well that in the event you are captured there will be military intervention. After all, can you imagine the outcry if the government had issued a statement saying “Mr Kember specifically indicated that he wanted no military intervention, and therefore, we need to respect his wishes and the military will not intervene in this matter.” It would simply not happen, and idiots like him who go out there know that.

I agree hmc

Do you get many butchers whinging at you, moondog?

No, politicians and their children don't physically go to war. They just declare them. Exactly my point.

Soldiers only begin wars in military dictatorship, i.e. Saddam against Kuwait and Iran.

Last time I looked the UK was not a military dictatorship, but a democracry.

I wonder what went wrong then when Blair decided to go to war against the wishes of the vast majority of people in this country ?

I do whinge at my butcher actually. I don't like the way he chops my lamb !

moondog you were the one who claimed Blair had experience of war, unlike NK. Koolkat and I were jus pointing out that Mr Blair's experience of war is rather limited to an armchair experience.

Woah this is a volatile thread... My little input is that desptite wheter or not war should have happened or these poeple should have been there.. At the end of the day to kidnap someone and threaten vilence and in many cases actually carry that out is wrong.

I dont understand why we are so steamed up about wether this guy should have gone there or not. Yes he does sound pompous and silly BUT kidnap and murder is wrong. The tropps rescued him because it was simply the right thing to do. Surely there should be discussion as to wether kidnapping someone who enters your country and doesnt share the same religous/political values is wrong.

I for one am appalled at human nature and the fact that people are brutalised and murdered for religious and political beliefs.. unfortunately it has been happening for time immemorial.. will we EVER learn?
sadly probably not.

havent read the thread but agree he is a pompous TWAT

np what a stupid thing to say! At least read the thread. If he had been killed would you have been saying the same thing? Sheesh ..

baa baa .. so many sheep following the lead of the media.

Yes kidnap and murder are wrong, but the do-gooders know that if they go to these countries they might potentially be kidnapped, or even murdered, and yet a lot of them think that God will protect them, and that because they are going in the name of God, and in the name of peace that that grants them imunity from kidnap, and from murder, well it doesn’t. that stupid woman who was on TV the other day bleeting on about how it wouldn’t be her fault if she was kidnapped, also said that it wasn’t actually anything to do with the military, and that it was the power of prayer that kept these hostages safe and ultimately freed them. FFS?

I hate that expression do-gooders. What would people rather they were - do-badders?

awen, i can have an opinion without reading the thread

I think the argument is on very dodgy ground when people point out that he just shouldn't have gone and it was his fault for going. FGS it was the men who kidnapped him that were at fault would you all be saying that someone would deserve to be mugged or raped because he or she was walking alone at night as well? and because they put themselves in a dangerous situation should no one help them?

I think dannie has it. I think an elderly man, who decided he'd done enough "at home" peace-campaigning and decidedly to actually go and experience what he was opposing, has been set up by the government and the media. Something was all wrong about the press coverage of this from the moment he was released - this merciless harping on about why he hadn't said thanks yet. He is 74, has just spent weeks in total fear for his life and worried sick about his family back home, and suddenly - freedom.
I admire principled folk like Norman Kember and I admire him for doing and saying what HE thinks is right, not being bullied into anything. The armed forces personnel who carried out the raid have been quite correctly publicly thanked for their bravery by the Government who sent them into this war in the first place. I am sure the soldiers who actually found Mr Kember and his colleagues and saw the pitiful state they were probably in are quite accepting of and sympathetic to his reactions.

IMO it is not that he went out there that is the problem
people are free to go where they choose and they know the risks

BUT he is ungrateful
those soldiers risked their lives to rescue him and he cant thank them for it without being pushed into it

manners cost nothing

But he said thankyou!
"I do not believe that a lasting peace is achieved by armed force, but I pay tribute to their courage and thank those who played a part in my release."

was that comment not a bit late and prompted ledodgy?

I bet he and the two Canadians did thank them at the time, they just haven't been grateful enough in front of the cameras.