"absolutely acceptable to leave a child"

[prufrock]

Has anyone else read the unbelievable story about the English couple arrested in NY because they left their 4 month old in a locked car by herself whilst they went into a shopping centre? Their defence is that the Americans have blown this out of all proportion because it is completely culturally acceptable to do this in Great Britain!

suew

have we "spoken" elsewhere by any chance....

My parents left me (aged 17 months) asleepin the car in the middle of the night in the hospital car park while my Mum was in labour!

I live in NZ and several of my friends have done the following:

Left baby in car on drive or in garage when asleep after a car ride (airconditioning on a hot day)

Left baby in car whilst popping into corner shop.

Left baby asleep in cot in house whilst popping across road to shops.

Left baby asleep whilst watching another child play sport a few metres away.

I find this all quite bizarre and always take ds out of the car or leave someone in the car with him. My limit is going to the end of the drive to pick up the post or the newspaper leaving ds in a safe place (usually cot).

I would like to put the record straight regarding Sunchowders comments on this being a representation of Jewish people around the world. This has nothing to do with religion, being jewish myself I wouldnt leave my daughter alone anywere , even for a second and knowing many other jewish families, know they wouldnt either. They have have just made a very stupid decision,(irrespective of their alleged religion).

Isn't it bizarre that this couple are being prosecuted, though? However stupid you may think they were, surely the appropriate response is for the police to tell them off. Huge overreaction - what are the courts going to do, send them to jail and leave their three kids without parents?

For what it's worth, Sue W, my 6 year old ds walks home from school to his childminder on his own. It's not very far - across the road at the lollipop man and round the corner - but he's loves the independence of it, and he's certainly not the only child doing it.
Also, my 2 dds (now aged 12 & 16) walked to and from school on their own, or with friends, from the age of about 7 or 8. This was in a different area - suburb of Edinburgh instead of a large village - and a slightly longer walk, but again was not considered unusual. Also in both areas, children go out to play alone in the quietish street from about the age of 4 or 5 and neighbours do watch out for each others children so it's not completely unknown in this country.

Yes agree it is ott, & should be given a warning maybe, that would be enough of a shock not to do it again. It was just a good job it isnt hot there this time of year otherwise it could have been a tragic story being told.

my neighbour who had her kids 40 years ago, and used to live in Central London, recalls leaving her baby in a pram outside the bank in Baker St, only to emerge to find it - and the baby, of course - gone. She nearly had a heart attack, only to discover her husband had strolled by, recognised the pram and decided to take the baby for a walk. This was totally normal then. Nobody took prams in shops. However, I do think it is possible to over idealise childhood freedom. I recently read Rhona Cameron's memoir of her childhood, in a small Scottish town in the 1970s which involved loads of kids roaming around, a LOT of underage sex, not always of the most consensual type, underage drinking (see also Cider With Rosie!) and some very not nice behaviour. Also I do recall the local parks of my childhood (Hertfordshire) being packed full of roaming bands of flashers (OK, I'm exaggerating slightly) which we simply never mentioned to our parents. It wasn't all Enid Blyton-esque ginger pop and adventures, I think.
I too leave my ds in the car on the garage forecourt where I can see him. And I certainly don't call his being in the house while I'm in the garden 'leaving him alone'. But I wouldn't leave him alone in a supermarket carpark. More than carjacking or anything equally unlikely (and actually more likely to happen when you are IN the car) I'd be concerned about his becoming distressed and afraid, or managing to get something in his mouth or round his neck and hurting himself.

melsy, I don't think Sunchowder meant it that way dinosaur also mentioned them being Jewish, and said she thinks the Jewish parents she knows are more protective, if anything.

Incidentally I just asked DH if he recognised the name of the mall from when we lived there and it was where he worked! (In a bank opposite the shops). It wasn't a very big place then - but don't remember it having a Wal-Mart, so it may be bigger now.

bobthebaby - it must be a personal thing - the decision to leave a baby alone for a short time or not. I think when you have more than one it makes you a bit more pragmatic though.

Have to disagree about child-in-house-mother-in-garden not being child left alone in house. Whatever could hypothetically happen on a 5-min walk to the post-box could also hypothetically happen during a 5-min sit in the sun.

NB This is not to say that mothers of babies should camp out next to the cot during naps! Just that there is a balance between over-protectiveness and neglect.

In 1977 ... in the 'good old days', when I was 7 ... I was nearly abducted walking home alone from school. I had badgered and badgered my mum to be allowed to walk home alone like all my friends did and eventually my mum agreed to meet me half way ...
I won't go into the details but the memory has stayed with me as clear as day for 26 years and I dread the day that DS tells me he is old enough to walk home on his own ... he is only 4 now but we live in NZ and I see a lot of children aged 7+ walking home.
Re. leaving babies/toddlers in cars. I would never have left DS in a supermarket carpark as a baby and nor would I do that now (although I have several parents here that do) ... but there is a thin line ... I often left DS asleep in the car outside our house when he was small ... I would take the shopping in, make a cup of tea and sit outside on the front step reading the paper ... OR, if it was raining I would sit by the window ... the car was 2 metres from the house.
I certainly do not think that hanging out the washing while your baby is asleep in the house is 'Leaving your baby in the house alone' ... but popping to the corner shop is ...
These days DS and I strike a deal ... he always asks if he can stay in the car and it depends on where we are ... if it's a supermarket I say 'No, because I can't see you and someone might take you' (I have no qualms about telling my son about Stranger Danger) but if it is the petrol station/post office/corner shop where I am popping in and out and can see him clearly from the window then I do leave him ... and stand in the shop like a nutter waving and smiling at him while I wait my turn!!!
Re. this couple in the US ... I think they were mad ... wouldn't have done that myself ... and am slightly taken aback by the 'culturally different', 'different mentality in Europe' comments ...
Should they be prosecuted? If it is US law then they should abide by it ...

Me and my brother used to be left in our pram in the garden. My brother in particular in the front garden so that he could watch the cars - so not much in the way of safety consciousness or gender equality then!

Also, way beyond the age of 3 if I suddenly announced I wanted a wee while on a car journey, the car was summarily stopped, I was whisked out of my seat and held out in that delightful toddler weeing position over the verge or gutter. A potty would be whipped out from the boot if number twos were mentioned.

Does this not happen any more? Surely if this was still de rigeur, the whole unhappy incident would have been avoided (or is that illegal too?)

BTW I am a never leave baby in car on petrol forecourt/driveway Mum, but I will jump out for any errand for which the door can be left open (e.g. post a letter)

fisil - i am the same as you regarding the last sentence of your post

Actually thinking about it my dad always tell a story of leaving me in my pram outside the pub with the dog while he went inside for a drink!!! And my mum used to leave me outside the shops in my pram with the dog as well. Can you imagine doing that today? Pity we can't really.

Well as a mother of 3 "under 4s" at one point, I regularly left them in the car to pay for petrol. The alternative was to get all 3 out onto the forecourt, which IMO would have been far more dangerous! Now they are school/nursery age, this isn't applicable now as I get petrol alone.

As for leaving them in the house, youngest used to be sleeping in cot upstairs whilst I was outside in the garden supervising other 2 - then aged 4 and 2 in the paddling pool. I considered that my older 2 were more at risk of drowning then anything potentially happening to a sleeping baby!

I don't consider being in the garden leaving a baby "home alone" - leaving the house and shutting the door behind you to go shopping/post box/neighbours is!

As for original post, I don't understand why it took 2 of them to take a child to the toilet and no, I wouldn't leave a child in a car out of sight!

Re the 70s: I used to walk to school on my own at a very young age - under 7 - when we lived in a village where I knew most people in the houses I passed (and my cat used to walk with me ). And all of us kids would play 'out' without parents - in the woods and the river. Imagine doing that today! But when we moved to a town my mother walked with us.

When our boys were preschool, DH and I both worked P/T and shared child care.
Being a typical man, DH managed to find a golf range where he could park up right next to the range. He'd take the boys for a drive till they fell asleep, then park up and hit a few balls !!!

Just want to confirm that all our post is delivered to a mail box at the end of the drive, and newspaper thrown onto drive. I am not walking down to the shops or anything. I really miss letter boxes in front doors.

I take a baby monitor with me if that makes anyone feel better.

I think Janh is right and that we have all become more paranoid these days. And I also appreciate Slinky's point about safety at the petrol station. I seem to recall a previous thread on this with pretty divided opinion. Personally I leave DS in the car. He knows where I am going, can see me, and is quite happy people watching and especially if the carwash is in use.

But I do think these people overstepped the mark in this instance. It seems to boil down to a case of where you draw the line.

I leave my kids in the car at the petrol station. I have also left ds in the car whilst popping into the post office - but ds is 5 and could get out of the car and come and find me if he needed to. And I've only done that to avoid tantrums when he refuses point blank to come with me. I would never leave either of them in any other circumstances.

Agree that being in the garden isn't the same as leaving your child alone. You would hear them cry and if the child choked or whatever then you probably would be no more likely to hear them from downstairs. You can't watch them every moment of every day.

The thought of a 6 year old walking home from school fills me with dread, but then I live in a not particularly nice area.

I am sickened by the thought of leaving a 6 month old. I can't see any justification for that.

Oh, I was going to add, that one of my mum's friends who had her children in the 60's/70's was advised by her hv, that if her children cried she should leave them in the pram at the end of the garden and go inside and put the radio on!!!