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4 sisters returned to Italian father after their Australian Mum took them to Australia.....dragged kicking and screaming onto the plane.

809 replies

AmberLeaf · 05/10/2012 00:59

Apparently the girls aged between 9-15 are dual citizens.

Link sorry its the DM.

Do they not take the childs view into account in Australia?

OP posts:
segue · 07/10/2012 22:49

The girls belong with their mother because that is their clear preference. Most children will naturally favour the mother over the father when push comes to shove. This is nature and has nothing to do with legalities. Yes, it is a dangerous message to send, that an abducting parent keeps the children, but none of us know what life was like for the mother in Italy. There have been claims of abuse but no-one knows how accurate this is. He comes across as controlling by direct quotes from today's Courier Mail (Queensland's main newspaper): "...he said he had not allowed the girls to talk to the mother since their return because he feared it would inflame the situation". He said to the mother "... it is impossible for you to speak to the girls. If she continues with the war and the struggles, it is not going to help anything". "My daughters think that with the Australian media near them today, the journalists will save them. But it's not the reality". You can draw your own conclusions.

TheEnthusiasticTroll · 07/10/2012 22:52

What he is saying sounds very sensible, some one needs to take the reigns here and sounds like he has done the right thing given this situation. Not in the slightest ideal, but the reality of it is that she will inflame the situation.

scottishmummy · 07/10/2012 23:00

Australia is signatory to Hague convention,thus must return the girls
lot handwringing and yes I do think there a gender bias on mn,re poor mutha
can't abduct your child it's not fair,it's not legal, and it's hard to establish facts in this case,so disputed

Morloth · 07/10/2012 23:22

The Hague Convention is much more important than any one case.

They can be with their mother. In Italy.

I would be on the next plane and ride out the charges and all the rest of it if it was clear as it is in this case that the kids will be in Italy.

It is a ridiculous mess.

I am proud of the Australian Judge who knew it would be an unpopular verdict but stuck with the law. Good, that is what I want. Because one day I may need that law applied and I don't want precedents where it can be ignored.

The mother has the ability to put her case for custody before the Italian courts and if the girls say there that they want to live with their mother then I think that should happen.

I bet they end up splitting the kids, two older ones back in Australia with their mother and the two younger ones stay in Italy.

differentnameforthis · 08/10/2012 03:07

Re the abuse, broken bones [the childrens] were mentioned

Which is pure speculation! There is no evidence that the girls are in danger with their father, otherwise the judge would not have realised them into his care!

differentnameforthis · 08/10/2012 03:09

They were not allowed to talk to the judge to put forward their point of view

YES they were! A year ago they told the Authorities here that they would happily return to Italy IF their mother accompanied them. The return order was made with that in mind, It was after that order was granted that she took them into hiding & started her turn them against their father. Telling them that she couldn't return, wasn't allowed to, would be arrested, everyone in the "village" hated her etc. So they started to hate it all based on her words. And the outcome is what we have today!

differentnameforthis · 08/10/2012 03:13

The facebook page is still up & running. There are pictures on there of a recent visit where the girls are surrounding dad, with cuddles & smiles.

differentnameforthis · 08/10/2012 03:15

AmberLeaf they rescheduled her flights earlier because they feared he may turn up and create

She lied to dad. She lied to the embassy.

I have covered this. She lied!

differentnameforthis · 08/10/2012 03:18

giveitago, yes, at the moment the only way she can see her children is to return to Italy. She has added an all new level to the custody issue by removing them. They won't be granted leave from the country to see her for some time, until it is all sorted (if at all, tbh. Which is why people donating to bring them back are wasting money)

differentnameforthis · 08/10/2012 03:22

Maryzed, it should never have taken 2 yrs. The order was granted last yr (perhaps still too long) but the mother took them into hiding. On finding them recently, the courts/AFP acted as quickly as possible before tehy could go into hiding again!

differentnameforthis · 08/10/2012 03:31

They simply didn't want to be there and this is what they've consistently said all along

No they haven't. Read the thread. Before the return order was granted (May 2011) the girls said they would happily return if mum went too. The youngest said she missed Italy & her father.

Shortly after (once mum had read the report that stated this) they went into hiding & the next time we see them, they all hate Italy &their father!

Australian law has bugger all to do with this, segue Australian Law DID NOT send them back The Hague convention did.

sashh · 08/10/2012 03:57

They have been split up, the older ones are with their father but the younger ones are at a different address - that can't be good.

news.ninemsn.com.au/national/8544069/custody-sisters-beg-nine-reporter-for-help

www.facebook.com/kidswithoutvoices

differentnameforthis · 08/10/2012 04:11

I have covered this below. They were separated because the younger two were calm & settling down & the elder two were not. The elder two were taken off the first flight as they were so upset. Knowing this, the father took the decision to keep the calmer two separate. The family thought it best to keep the younger ones calm, so away from the older ones for a while. It would seem they were right, as at least the younger two were not subjected to the attack on their father.

He reported that they were calm on their arrival (older ones) & only started acting the way they were on the video after the were found with a mobile phone & told the press were outside.

I wouldn't believe anything on kids without voices.

differentnameforthis · 08/10/2012 04:12

And ninemsn are in trouble over the way they handled that scene in Italy, I heard!

Redsilk · 08/10/2012 04:42

Article in the Italian press about the "seige" of the Australian journalists at the father's home
corrierefiorentino.corriere.it/firenze/notizie/cronaca/2012/7-ottobre-2012/bimbe-casa-poi-nuova-fuga-assedio-tv-australiane-2112145132813.shtml

Redsilk · 08/10/2012 04:50

The above Italian article via Google translate: in addition to the violent and reckless behavior of the Australians in creating havoc to film, the article seems to say:

  1. Lying mum is now arriving in Italy. Next lie to be shown will be her non-arrest
  2. Older daughter has a boyfriend in Oz and wants to be with him, not mum
  3. Father begged the journalists to leave his girls alone and was beaten. He has filed a criminal complaint.

PONTASSIEVE - "Please save us from this siege. I ask not only for the sake of the children, but also for that of their mother. " Thomas Winning, the father of four girls kidnapped ex-wife and brought to Australia two years ago - now back in Italy after a judgment of the Court of Brisbane - out of the family mansion to speak with two journalists in Australia. Despite a morning of hell, can do this with soft tones: "Your judges - the man says to the reporter - said they use the media that my ex-wife did our daughters is one of the errors that compromise the its position. So if you are on the side of the mother, never mind the children, keep the cameras away from them. " Yeah, because yesterday morning, two Australian television crews were presented at the gate of the villa in the countryside of Pontefract, and began to shout the names of the girls. The two largest, 14 and 15 years, returned Friday from the other side of the world (as opposed to smaller) did not take well the separation from the mother, are still very shaken and angry. So I sneak out of the house while their mother a journalist contacted by phone and handed it to her feel speakerphone.

His mother cried, the girls the same. "I did not understand what they were saying," explains Joan, his paternal grandmother. Thomas came running, has brought home one of the two sisters, and when he came back to take the other, asked the crew to leave because they were on a private road. "The people continued to take my daughter - says the man - I put a hand on the camera to lower it, but one of them has turned me an inch and I kicked." The manager would be an Italian coach who was there to support the Australian crew. The crew of Channel 9 the other hand, contends that it reacted after being attacked by the father of the girls. Vincenti went to be healed in San Francesco di Pelago, the finger swollen and a graze to the leg. Today will complaint (against unknown) for harassment and assault. It was the arrival of the police in Pontassieve to restore calm. But throughout the day the item is bounced Laura Garrett was arriving at the villa. Vincenti I have been informed by the Italian diplomatic sources that the woman would be landed yesterday in Fiumicino.

But she, in Pontassieve, no trace. To avoid further tensions in the afternoon the girls were taken away. Meanwhile, the office of Thomas, the lawyer Elena Zazzeri, explained that even if the arrival of Garrett, Vincenti should not make contact with her daughters: "In theory, it would still be valid joint custody in force in 2010, when the girls were brought to Australia - he says - but until a new decision of the Juvenile Court, Thomas has a duty to protect children from situations that might disturb them further. " Moreover, it is written in its judgment of 14 May 2012 pronounced by the judge of the Family Court of Colin Forrest Brisbane, counsel for Garrett gave up the mandate because the maternal grandmother had announced it was ready to kill the girls ("she would murder the children », is written) in the case where the daughter had lost the case. A Pontassieve, now the priority is the serenity of the four sisters.

"They will need a psychologist 'explains Zazzeri. "Until a year ago, I sent messages to me even intimate confidences - says grandmother Giovanna - and now the two largest not talk to me anymore." But it is the second child to suffer more than others, a beautiful girl, misty-eyed, that Brisbane has also left a teenage love. Fault of a justice that he did in 26 months what they should have done, in accordance with international law, in six weeks. "When the waters have calmed down, when Laura give guarantees to respect the covenants - promises Thomas - I'll be willing to agree on a joint custody between Italy and Australia. I just want the good girls. "

MadameCastafiore · 08/10/2012 06:05

Mum sounds like the villain here to me too nice guy.

BoneyBackJefferson · 08/10/2012 06:45

sashh

I very much doubt the preamble on the kids without voices page.

scottishmummy · 08/10/2012 06:47

see the sofa judiciary doing case review.has anyone said gavel
cannot ignore Hague convention on case by case basis to suit personal bias
laws need to protect parents and children from abduction not go aww poor mutha

AmberLeaf · 08/10/2012 07:08

Bad translation but his lawyer is saying thomas shouldnt let laura see the girls if she comes to Italy?

She lied to dad. She lied to the embassy

I have covered this. She lied

Yeah. I mentioned her alleging abuse at the embassy because someone said why did she only start mentioning abuse after she arrived in australia, or as you're saying only within the last year.

She didn't. she was saying it from the outset.

OP posts:
differentnameforthis · 08/10/2012 08:03

It is worth noting that the boyfriend of the older is alleged to be 20.

differentnameforthis · 08/10/2012 08:10

She alleged abuse at the embassy to get the flight moved.

differentnameforthis · 08/10/2012 08:16

Also coming to the fore are journal pages written by one of the girls. If you see them please bear in mind that none of them spoke English when they left Italy. They have been in hiding for a yr (so little schooling) and the grammar spelling of the journal pages is near perfect for each.

Just saying.

differentnameforthis · 08/10/2012 08:17

Oh & they came here on return tickets!

differentnameforthis · 08/10/2012 08:19

I haven't said she only alleged abuse in the last year, I have said she started it at the embassy.