4 sisters returned to Italian father after their Australian Mum took them to Australia.....dragged kicking and screaming onto the plane.

[AmberLeaf]

Apparently the girls aged between 9-15 are dual citizens.

Link sorry its the DM.

Do they not take the childs view into account in Australia?

"What's done is done" - would that be your opinion is your children were taken?

This is the problem - if one parent breaches the law as they do every day of the week in not letting a child back with the other parent not not allowing any contact ever, then a status quo emerges where the child is bonded with that parent and parents (wrongly) exploit that all the time and of course courts are left to decide do I change that status quo. That is why we need these proceedings to be much much faster and ensure there is no chance for the child to get used to never staying with daddy half the week or never seeing him or staying with mummy abroad when she stole the children in breach of the law.

Now we are where we are I really don't think we can give in all the time to parents who steal their children abroad. That is why so many nations signed this Hague Convention - it is very clear and very very fair and I wish mroe nations stuck to it (one poor parent has children in Japan they can never see - they wrote about it earlier this year because Japan does not enforce the convention - the children are British and were born here).

Sounds pretty horrible and very likely to me. We don't know where in Italy the father is from. Having spent some time travelling there I can see how this would happen - some of the villages are extremely insular, and horribly backwards to western standards (think women being possessions of men, grandmothers/mothers running the families and DILs being expected to wait on their MILs hand and foot). Remember abuse doesn't have to mean physical beatings etc and the law courts are full of older, more 'traditional' men. If it is one of those type of villages that the girls are going to they are going to be treated as second class citizens from the word go.

Eve you are bang on the money. Half my family is Italian as is my mother.
Ive been talking about it on the JS threads.
If GOD FORBID anything bad happens to those girls in Italy they will be blamed for it. Victim blaming and woman blaming is rife.

Goldship

If the mother had done what was right two years ago the girls would not be suffering now.

If it were my children I wouldn't want them to have to be dragged to me kicking screaming and crying. Of course I'd want them back, but I wouldn't put them through that distress. I'm sure any unselfish mother would be the same. I would want to uproot them. I'd have to find a different way. Maybe even moving to them.

GoldShip

Have you read this thread? They were taken away from their entire lives 2 yrs ago. Taken away from friends, family, their home.

That is what is barbaric. She snatched 4 non English speaking children away from a happy life (that they have professed to miss & love) and she has kept them in the media spotlight for TWO years. Winding then so tightly that they have acted exactly how she wanted.

Don't tell me that what the AFP did was unfair & barbaric, because, not to sound too juvenile, the mother started it!

You can't tell me that what happened this week was barbaric, but what happened 2yr ago was not.

The girls didn't even know they were going to leave, they also thought they were having a holiday. They didn't get to say goodbye to friends & family in Italy. They didn't get a choice then. They didn't get asked if they wanted this played out by the media.

How can you say that don't care about what happened before? You simply cannot say that, because to be able to decide what you feel about it now, you need to read all teh facts.

The fact is, is that NONE of this would be happening if mum didn't kidnap them in the first place.

boneyback does anyone know what she was running from? I think until we know that it's not fair to condemn this woman.

How can you say that don't care about what happened before? You simply cannot say that, because to be able to decide what you feel about it now, you need to read all teh facts.

Because I'm more concerned about what the girls are going through now rather than legalities.

Goldship

Do you know if she was running from anything?

One year ago all of the children where happy to back to Italy, now they are not.
The two younger children are happy to be home with their father the older two are not.
The mother has lied from the beginning, the father has done everything in law to get them back.

Gold, before she left with the girls she told the father that she wanted them all (sans him) to relocate to Australia. That she no longer wanted to live there. He refused to give permission for the girls to relocate & refused to sign passport forms as he was worried she would do exactly what she did.

It is worth nothing that at the time they had joint custody of the girls, (father having them weekends & one night a week) with no perceived issues. No allegations of abuse of any kind.

Over time (and I have read this in an interview by her) she worked on him to get him to sign the forms, promising that she would take them on holiday & be back in a month. He finally gave in, she told the Embassy in Italy that he gave his permission for them to live here. Telling the girls (rather telling I think) that they were going on holiday. The Embassy arranged flights, money etc to help her relocate.

She lied to the Embassy. She lied to her children. She lied to their father.

You cannot say that you don't care about that, only that you care about what is happening now, because what is happening now is a result of what happened then.

Unless you've been in a family court where everything you say is interpretted as lies by the other side it's really really hard to know how you would behave under the circumstances. Yes the father has legally done everything right, doesn't mean he is at all.

It is worth noting

Mosman, there is nothing to say that he has done anything wrong either. Where as the mothers lies and actions are documented.

These things are never black and white, I was made out to be a liar, I wasn't, the court told I'd acted in my own self interest, it wasn't. All down to who's barrister has the loudest voice at the end of the day. The children don't come into it.

you cannot say you don't care about that

Well actually, without meaning to be rude, I can. I have the girls feelings in mind, no-one else's. No matter what laws have been broken before and which parent was in the right, they are the ones suffering now and their feelings should be taken into account.

Having the girls' feelings in mind is great, Gold. But what about their feelings of 2yr ago? Do they suddenly not matter? How must they have felt to be forced into staying here? Not seeing their father? Being ripped away from their entire lives? Suddenly thrown into a new life of running, hiding, lawyers, psychs, court reps, media circus, all as unwilling participants!

If you do, as you say, have their feelings in mind, it needs to be all of their feelings in the entirety, from the absolute beginning of this whole sorry saga! Not just because they have been sent home.

Mosman, but the mum here has clearly lied. So it isn't about who is the loudest at all.

Goldship. You might not care about that but the rest of us do.

What she did was wrong. The law was clear. The lies are documented. To allow her to get away with this not only is in effect allowing her to get away with a very serious crime. It also puts in danger thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of children all over the world whose parents have dual nationality and could relocate kids just like she has.

In short many women are sleeping safer tonight because of the Hague convention. There is a bigger picture here. The mum broke the law in a calculated and manipulative fashion. The fact you seemingly don't care about any of these things just shows me how blinkered you are to the facts rather than the rhetoric.

Nice guy - the rest of you might but I'm not arguing with you and trying to change your opinion am I? So let me have my comment and you can have yours.

The mother was wrong. Entirely wrong to take the kids away. She is the creator of any trauma the children have been subjected to.

Darkesteyeswithflecksofgold

They live in Florence.

The police and other agencies do have rules, irrespective of the 'cause' of any domestic situation.

Not sure I follow, Line!

The law has to be strict otherwise other parents are incentivised to break it. There are few international abductions. A much more common issue is mother refuses father ever to see children are a divorce/separation. The courts do not act for 6 months because it takes ages to get reports. By that time children hate father and refuse to see him. Court experts say child does not want to see father end of story. It's very very unjust.

If we could get these cases before a court within 7 days of the mother refusing the contact visit we would have a much fairer situation without this terrible dilemma of children bonded to parent they live with due to lapse of time.

We all probably remember the English lady whose children were taken to Germany by their father (Germany is another bad one in not enforcing this convention very well - you can almost make a list of men never to marry from these countries as you might lose your chidlren and Muslim states). They then learned of course only German and in due course, years never wanted to see their mother. She married the British ambassador to the US but I don't think she reall even now the chidlren are adult will quite have got them "back" emotionally.

I suppose the moral is never marry a foreigner as you might lose your children.

Goldship. Of course you are entitled to your own opinion. And I am a firm believer of free speech. You comment away. I'm not trying to deny you your opinion. Just merely point out why I think your opinion is wrong.

You are more than welcome to do the same for mine. That's when it becomes a debate.