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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

woman sentenced to 8 years for 38-week home abortion

508 replies

WokingOnSunshine · 17/09/2012 12:57

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-19621675
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2204471/Mother-Sarah-Catt-terminated-baby-week-date-using-medication.html

OP posts:
shesariver · 18/09/2012 21:23

Some people just don't have emotions like the majority of us, and some people are selfish they would do anything necessary to get what they want, even if it means doing something that most of us would regard as totally immoral and wrong. Some people lack empathy. Quite clearly there is more to this story because there was evidence of a late stage pregnancy and no baby - but doesn't mean there was any more to this than a woman who puts her own feelings over anyone elses and was prepared to go to extreme lengths to cover up evidence of her affair. The courts seem to agree with this - she is not in a psychiatric facility of any description whatsoever.

perceptionreality · 18/09/2012 21:28

shesariver - people who lack empathy and are psychopathic are usually sent to a hospital for the criminally insane instead of prison - I believe that is so in the case of Ian Brady?

ToothbrushThief · 18/09/2012 21:30

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

shesariver · 18/09/2012 21:35

Yes perception lack of empathy is a characteristic of psychopathic personality disorder but you can be psychopathic and not necessarily commit crimes (there are probably more out there than you realise). Psychopaths are NOT what you term "criminally insane" - that would refer more to psychotic illnesses, if someone like this committed a crime they would be detained in a secure hospital e.g Broadmoor in England, Carstairs here in Scotland. I would guess a big chunk of the general prison population have psychopathic tendencies to their personality to.

perceptionreality · 18/09/2012 21:35

You didn't make the acid comment but the sentiment of your postings appears to suggest that some people are just evil and that's the end of it and there is no point considering why they might have done something.

I apologise if I read your postings wrongly.

perceptionreality · 18/09/2012 21:39

I know that there are many psychopaths who don't commit crimes.

My point is that people who commit crimes because they are deemed mentally ill usually go to a hospital instead of a prison and that if someone is not mentally ill there are possibly other explanations for their crimes.

ToothbrushThief · 18/09/2012 21:40

You read incorrectly and I'm furious at your slur. I have to say that your skewed viewpoint on this has made me question your whole perspective here.

My SOLE point was that because you cannot understand a crime you do not blame another person.

shesariver · 18/09/2012 21:41

Yes, that they are just bad people for example.

perceptionreality · 18/09/2012 21:42

slur? Hmm

What do you mean by 'blame another person'?

Oh yes, I must be crazy too - good way to ignore every point I made Grin

perceptionreality · 18/09/2012 21:44

But how can someone be 'just bad'? If they lack empathy then they lack something that most people have which suggests they are psychopathic, no? It's almost like a disability isn't it.

Alternatively some people find themselves in situations where they do bad things, even though they are not bad people.

FrancesFarmer · 18/09/2012 21:45

It is very sad that the baby died and it's very difficult to even guess at what this woman was thinking.

We women have great power in that life grows within us and the vast vast majority of us use that power responsibly, but it bothers me that a male-dominated legal system is depriving a woman for something she did to her own body.

ToothbrushThief · 18/09/2012 21:47

You think it's important to defend the woman in this case and yet accuse me of wanting to do this?

Therefore lets pour acid in her vagina and torture her, after all she deserves it

You don't see that is a slur.

What don't you understand about blame another person? To suggest she cannot be responsible for this and it must be the fault of a partner is passing blame.

FrancesFarmer · 18/09/2012 21:48

^ that should read imprisoning, not depriving

ToothbrushThief · 18/09/2012 21:49

Oh yes, I must be crazy too No. Just paranoid

OliviaLMumsnet · 18/09/2012 21:49

Ahem

ToothbrushThief · 18/09/2012 21:53

Ahem indeed Wink

bonzo77 · 18/09/2012 21:58

toothbrush and for that matter shesariver I am not "trying to blame" a partner, just to understand, which I realise is pretty fuitile. I absolutely agree that this is inexplicable. That whatever the circumstances what this woman has done could never be justified. It's possible that the perpetrator can shed light on her motives, though I doubt she will come up with anything that most of us can see as a reasonable explanation. I accept the possibility that like Brevik she is absolutely sane, and that she acted alone, without influence of others, and is evil. Even evil people have motivations, even if they are not ones that we can understand.

I am not naive enough to think that women are not capable of horrendous crimes against others, and to do so independently of men. I also know that occasionally people (men and women) find themselves put in unbearable situations by others (including partners) that push them to do unthinkable things. Things that they might not actually have gone through with alone. I'm thinking of Rosemary West, who committed some crimes alone and some with her husband, though her offending only started after her relationship with Fred began.

I am also open to the possibility that there is an explanation (which yes, I do understand, is not the same as a justification) beyond this.

shesariver · 18/09/2012 21:59

perception people can be just bad pure and simple - what is so hard to accept about that? Not everything in life is an illness or a disorder. Not everyone who lacks empathy is a psychopath!

shesariver · 18/09/2012 22:01

bonzo thanks for coming back to explain, as I did find it a bit strange.

Tempernillo · 18/09/2012 22:07

There was at article in the dm today (read round at mum's house!) that stated she was found to be sane, she understood what she had done and she knew it was illegal.

ToothbrushThief · 18/09/2012 22:09

Thank you bonzo.

I guess you were just writing out loud what we all naturally wonder when trying to comprehend an act which is incomprehensible. However the evidence provided in court didn't suggest that a partner should be blamed.

BuntCadger · 18/09/2012 22:13

francesfarmer the baby didn't just die tho, it was killed and possibly post birth too Sad The baby was viable by gestation and past the legal limit as it it. Insiders to have rights.

I recall and awful case a couple of years ago where a girl was raped and murdered when full term, this both the baby and woman died. The murderer was jailed for murdering her and destroying the baby and quite rightly too. Why is this different?

joona · 18/09/2012 22:20

francesfarmer what she did wasnt just to her own body though was it?!

bonzo77 · 18/09/2012 22:21

toothbrush and shesariver Smile

bunt do we know if baby was killed? Without a body we can't really know for certain.

edam · 18/09/2012 22:24

That's what is so extraordinary about this case, we just don't know what happened to the baby. The woman says he or she was stillborn but there's no evidence to either prove or disprove this.