Hillsborough. Police did doctor evidence in a bid to avoid blame.

[Darkesteyeswithflecksofgold]

A report in the Independent about the cover up. RIP to the people who lost their lives on 15th April 1989.
And condolences to the families who are still suffering.

www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/exclusive-hillsborough--police-did-doctor-evidence-in-bid-to-avoid-blame-8126233.html

I would very much like to know whether the cover-up was so hideously successful for so long because it was in some way sanctioned by Thatcher.

I've never bought the Sun.
As for Kelvin Mackenzie, why does he appear all over the tv now as some sort of media pundit?
His views have not changed over the years , he just directs his bile at others.
I would love to never, ever see his face again.

The notes from the Thatcher government meetings have not yet been released IIRC. Hopefully they will be now.

I know the fences were taken down shortly after Hillsborough but I do wonder if the Govt of the day were also keen to also avoid blame and legal liability. The initial inquiry came up with a conclusion that was rather convenient for a lot of people who had an interest in blaming the fans.

I wondered that too. Especially seeing as the courts ruled that police officers involved could claim compensation for their distress but that the families couldn't.

I live in Devon, I was 17 when Hillsborough happened and I had two friends there that day who were season ticket holders and travelled from Devon to every game. I watched it unfold on tv with the wife of one friend and we feared for their lives.

Thankfully they were ok but they were both traumatised and received counselling. The marriage of one broke up and the other still cries to this day when talking about it.

They attended inquests and hearings and gave evidence and were disgusted at how they had been portrayed as fans.

Today the truth is out. The police changed their statements in order to blame the fans. Yes, maybe some of them had a few pints before the match but that didn't mean that they deserved to die and then be blamed for causing their own death.

The government and police at that time should hang their heads in shame.

Justice for the 96

RIP

Also, I think that it was/is the city council that had/has the legal responsibility for ground safety.

Hmmm...still wonder why no one was held responsible for that. Surely having all your documentation up to date is a pre-requisite?

Pagwatch - I understand what you're trying to say, and I'm not trying to minimise the extent of the hooliganism. Stereotypes appear for a reason, and English teams were also banned from Europe for a reason.
But, were you in fear of your life from the violence at every game? If so, why did you continue to go? I had people ask me if I wasn't scared to attend - they genuinely believed that violence was a part of every single game, because that is what they were told. They believed that fans weren't that interested in the match but went along for the fighting and couldn't understand why my parents were being so irresponsible taking me and my sister (from the ages of 8 and 6) along.
It was bad, but it wasn't a given at every game, and neither was every fan automatically a thug.

It was that kind of attitude though, that I do think helped the cover-up. If you believe that every fan is a violent person, intent on a good scrap, you are less likely to question the official line when told the fans were causing trouble.

Justice for the 96 and I would say it is about time.

I was getting my then weeks old son ready and the match was on in the background. I watched it unfold, wondered what the hell was going on, it was truly horrific. It carried on until the match stopped.

I can't see in any way how the fans could ever be blamed, they were at the front innocently watching the match, ignorant of the tragedy to happen.

Hanley all the government papers have been released now, including the cabinet ones. They reveal lack of action in the government's response but clear them of being complicate in the cover up. The main points it makes about the government are:

86. In documents disclosed to the Panel it is evident that the primary concern of the Government at the time was the potential impact (positive or negative) on the Parliamentary passage of the planned Football Spectators Bill.

87. Following the publication of the Taylor Report, the Prime Minister was briefed that ?the defensive ? and at times close to deceitful ? behaviour by the senior officers in South Yorkshire sounds depressingly familiar?. The Government did not seek to protect the SYP Chief Constable and it was considered inevitable that he would resign. His resignation, however, was rejected by South Yorkshire Police Authority.

88. Access to Cabinet documents reveals that in an exchange about her Government ?welcoming the Report? the Prime Minister, Margaret Thatcher, expressed her concern that the ?broad thrust? of the Taylor Report onstituted a ?devastating criticism of the police?.

Quoted from the Hillsborough Report

Thanks.

*complicate? Where did that come from, it should have been complicit.

There will (or ought to be) 41 new inquests and I hope that Michael Mansfield will be able to test the adequacy of Thatcher's response, especially given her knowledge about the actual events of that day.

It was so obvious at the time that it was a darn sight more than just unruly fans. I remember it so clearly, and the papers the next day.

RIP 96 and justice and truth may at last be served.

An emotional day here in Liverpool.
The families of the 96 are at last being given the truth, hopefully they will have justice soon too.
JFT96.

YNWA

I was still in nappies at the time of Hillsborough, never knew much about it apart from that it was a tragedy.

Just been looking at the news on-line and I'm shocked at the scale of the cover up.

My heart goes out to all the families involved.

RIP those poor people.
This took too long. I hope the families gain some peace now.

I was listening to the matches that day on the radio, in the car. My team was in the other semi final. I'll never forget it. What a tragedy.

I am also astounded that random's FIL dares to peddle such cowardly lies, still. Disgusting.

Are there many people here who actively need to boycott The Sun?

Disgusted but relieved that the fans and victims have been vindicated.

JFT 96 YNWA

I have read every one of the 215 messages on here, and cried all the way through it.

I'm from Liverpool, and although I didnt go to the match I know loads who did. Luckily noone i knew died. but the people i did know were changed forever by what they saw. i'm changed by seeing one chap on Friday in work, there were about 8 of them going, then on Monday he came into work.. Haunted is the only word for it... I was warned not to speak to him about it... he was hollow. He never came back to work after that... he couldnt face the surviours guilt.

These were normal family men. just normal, nothing outstanding, not sterotypical thugs.

the sn has done everything to get back into liverpool, even opening the news international printing place there. I wouldnt wipe me bum with the sn, not then, not now.

and before they say, we printed what we were told to be true..... Get REAL! people saw it live on TV, did anyone see what was claimed? People said they saw scousers stealing from dead bodies, when in reality they were looking for identification.....

shame on those who easily believed the cover up. and just remember next time there is a huge story.... Make up your own mind.

JFT96

Working my way through the report in disbelief. I expected there to be major issues, but not to this extent. Horrifying.

To those discussing hooliganism in the 80s, my own perspective is that aged 15 - 16 I was allowed to go to home matches and stand in the Kop, with a couple of other girls my age, all of us with the kind of parents where you had to submit requests in triplicate with supporting evidence if you wanted to do anything as risky as go shopping. Yes, it was a bit rough - you made sure you stood right in front of one of the rails so you didn't get pushed about when we scored (which happened a lot more often in those days) - but never particularly intimidating. This was around 1984-5.

Having said that, I have no doubt that those already spoiling for a fight would know where to go to find one, but we always managed to avoid any trouble. NOT that it has any bearing on today's news.

Enormous respect for the families who have conducted their dignified fight for the truth for 23 years. You never have and never will walk alone.

JFT96.

I can feel the rage and grief from Liverpudlians on this thread.
I so don't blame you.

It's still so deeply felt, LBE. I think we all remember, and many of us were personally affected, either through friends and family, or in a there-but-for-the-grace-of-God way. I was fifteen, and came back to the house of a boy in Formby I was friends with to see it unfolding on television. My father had gone to the game, and we didn't hear for hours that he was alright. I felt numb all day, just waiting. That boy I was talking about earlier, Kevin, came from Formby, same age as I was then. His family down the road must have been going through the same horror of waiting; for them, it has never ended

My bunfight comment was directed at random female.

I actively boycott the s*n and I will continue to do so.

I have stood at the Hillsborough Memorial at the Shankly gates and I have been to Hillsborough and stood at the entrance to the tunnel at Leppings Lane...... Both of those are massively emotional for me. I cannot believe it has taken so long for the truth to out. It must be so hard for Steven Gerrard to see the memorial every day as his cousin was the youngest victim of the tragedy......

JFT96 YNWA

The findings are what everyone knew they would be but utterly disgraceful all the same. The level of lies and cover ups is staggering though. I sincerely hope that all those who ordered the cover up and were complicit at a senior level are swiftly brought to justice. That includes the MP who fed the lies to The Sun and the senior officers in SYP. One of whom is now Chief Constable in my county. He should resign and soon. He does not deserve to still have a job in the police force quite frankly.

As for football hooliganism in the 70s/80s it was bad. Well that depends where you lived but as a Leeds girl it was bad. The Leeds 'Service Crew' had a dreadful reputation and I can remember the city centre being declared off limits by my parents on a Saturday afternoon as can DP even though his DF used to take him to some games. Shops used to board up windows near the station and ground and there was police everywhere. Particularly if Leeds were playing a particular rival such as Chelsea. It was horrible and I am so glad we seem to have moved on from that.

Football grounds in the 70s/80s were often health and safety nightmares and death traps. I know that. I lost 3 relatives at Valley Parade but at least we know that that was just negligence. It was an old wooden stand, rubbish had built up underneath it, it just took one fag end etc etc. As tragic and preventable as it was it wasn't compounded by such a massive and disgusting cover up by those who caused it and by blatant attempts to say it was the fan's own fault they got burnt to death.

And randomfemale if I were you I'd be looking at my FIL in a whole different light. Methinks he is a lying fucker.