Smug British couple using Indian Surrogate as 'receptacle' for their biological child

[Romilly70]

This article was in the DM (yes I do read it, although I know it's shit).

I was hoping this was a spoof article given their names.
I just cannot believe that people like this woman actually exist!

How is the baby not purchased?

You pay for it to be carried and born. How many women would willingly do this if they weren't destitute and in need of money? And why then are you not allowed to profit from surrogacy in uk. It screams of double standards.

What's more - of I was going to rent the womb of another human being I wouldn't be able to justify it to myself unless I could see with my own eyes that the care and welfare of the surrogate was at least as good as that which I receive for myself.

craccrackcrack - how sanctimonious do you sound

hopingtodrive - they are buying a service, same as IVF couples do.

Sorry about the links not working. Will try to re post from the computer.
darksecret all the best! I don't think there's anything wrong with surrogacy and I find your approach the humanitarian one. You know what is being asked of this woman, and you know that whilst she will be compensated, there's many a slip 'twixt the cup and the lip. I respect you for that.
maryz I agree. In an ideal world there would be more regulation around surrogacy and the surrogates would receive payment for their services instead of being wombs for hire on behalf of the men in their family.

Why is that sanctimonious?

nancy66 not everything is as beautiful and perfect and black and white as you think it is.

Darksecret - feel free not to answer but I'm interested in how you reassured yourselves that the woman was willing. I don't have an issue with surrogacy but it seems (from the limited reading that I have done) that that's the hardest part to be sure of. I wish xenia's point 3 was true - it may be in dome cases, but it appears it's often not. It does appear that the orchard's weren't that fussed about that part of the arrangement do haven't faced it, whereas you clearly are.

IPod mixing d's and s's!

Urgh her choice - how bloody Neo liberal. Lots of things are a choice - doesn't make them ethical.

Nancy working in a country where poor women are as disposable as the ones in India I know that things aren't as black and white as may appear on the outside. It is very easy to replace the woman; for the husband, the fertility clinics, and the coples who hire them.

If any of these women suffer complications or die no1 is gna bat an eyelid as there are many many more destitute women whose husbands and families need the money.

zombie - I don't think for a minute that it's perfect, I just think throwing things like 'baby buying' and 'slavery' into the mix doesn't help or add anything useful to the debate.

nancy66 on that we are agreed.

It's the same as the sex industry right - all sex workers are empowered women who made an informed choice surrogates must be the same no?

I think its awful to think that the surrogate doesn't even get to cuddle the baby. She is a human being too.

I feel that that the surrogate is being exploited to the point that is immoral.

I don't have any real problems with most of what is being done - though I don't see why the surrogate mothers have to be separated from their own children for 9 months - that seems dreadful ...

But my main issue is with the way the prospective parents are talking about the surrogate mother. They seem to be trying to over-simplify something which can never be simple.

I wish everyone involved all the best though.

"though I don't see why the surrogate mothers have to be separated from their own children for 9 months - that seems dreadful ..."

The reality is that women who are desperate enough to consider surrogracy may well take drugs or drink excessively. The clinic do not want a 20K baby to be a crack head or have fetal alochol syndrome or the woman to have a miscarriage due to domestic violence.

I hope the children are allowed to visit. However in the third world its not uncommon for parents to be away from their families for months on end to earn money. Ie. Philopeano maids etc.

I just hope the surrogate gets the best of ante natal and post natal care.

"The reality is that women who are desperate enough to consider surrogracy may well take drugs or drink excessively. The clinic do not want a 20K baby to be a crack head or have fetal alochol syndrome or the woman to have a miscarriage due to domestic violence."

Isn't that against the woman's rights as well? If she wants to drink or use drugs that's her choice.

But surely a system that treated the surrogate mothers fairly could enable young children to stay with their mother during the pregnancy, and also support visits from older children ?
Also doesn't sound like they get a fair share at all of the 20K (most going to the clinic ?)

ReallyTired - it also says in the report I linked to that surrogacy is frowned up by the communities the surrogates come from (they often don't understand how someone can be pregnant without sex for example) so they stay away to hide their pregnancy and to protect them from their own community. Unfortunately it also says that when they return they are sometimes then shunned by their community or abandoned by their husbands (even when it was their idea in the first place).

Also how much of the 20k goes to the woman?

"Isn't that against the woman's rights as well? If she wants to drink or use drugs that's her choice."

No one gives a damn about the poor surrogate. Desitute women have no rights.

I imagine that the clinic would get about half the money as food, accodomation and ante natal care and delivery would cost quite a bit.

The articles says its between 3000-6000£. Hardly life changing.

Also the clinics are not transparent about how much the surrogates wre paid so that makes me think it's even less.

Mrs orchard thinks that the surrogate will be able to buy a house with amount of money. She is really in la la land.

At the very least the couples shd find out how much money is actually going to the surrogate.

I am not against surrogacy where the people involved are doing it out of free choice. A sister or friend being a surrogate - this is not new.

In India and similar developing nations, there is no freedom of choice.
Universal freedom of choice is a luxury that these people don't have.

These women are, in the majority, in marriages of convenience. Arranged by families for economic and social reasons. There are so-called 'love marriages' but these are still in the minority. I am talking mainly about the impoverished classes here. This is fact. I have links to the subcontinent and have seen this for myself.

These women have to do as their husband or family directs. They don't have any other means of support so no choice. A few do manage to escape this situation by education or setting up some kind of business. But that is a very small minority and unfortunately, they tend to have little empathy for their fellow women.

In addition to this, there is the prostitution and slavery aspect. In my view, surrogacy is an additional revenue stream for the exploiters. These women are largely illiterate and won't see much, if any money. The 'husband', pimp or whoever has the power, will decide to enter into the surrogacy. The woman has no choice in the matter. There are already cases where the surrogate mother has died, been abandoned after the pregnancy and also instances where the women have been forcibly detained and made to undergo several pregnancies. The clinics are there to make a profit for the owners. These are not altruistic charities.

These women are being abused and liable to more abuse.

How does anyone know if the 'much wanted' child is always well treated?

Having a child is not a right, but is increasing becoming regarded as one. There is no clear cut answer but in my opinion, this kind of surrogacy is open to exploitation and MUST be regulated. Just because we have the technology to do certain things, doesn't mean that we should do them.