Smug British couple using Indian Surrogate as 'receptacle' for their biological child

[Romilly70]

This article was in the DM (yes I do read it, although I know it's shit).

I was hoping this was a spoof article given their names.
I just cannot believe that people like this woman actually exist!

cote - congratulations. That's quite a twisting, even by MN standards.

The point I was making is that surrogates in America aren't that different from surrogates in India - i.e they're badly off and need the money.

Sadlyinfertile seems to have convinced herself their motives are more altruistic. Why would they be?

a non-issue for me.

CoteDAzur I just don't think it is incredibly patronising to think that a woman can't be trusted to do what she wants with her body when we're talking about surrogacy. It might easily be much harder for a woman to give up the child she has just given birth to than she thinks it will be for one thing.
Plus there are many pressures on women all over the world which affect their decisions.

I think that surrogacy in the US is different to India. Both the surrogate and the reciepitant family speak the same language. I think that Sadlyinfertile is doing her research carefully. I wish both her future surrogate and Sadlyinfertile good luck with the pregnancy.

In the US every child gets the chance to go to school up to the age of 18 and there is a limited welfare system in the US. Unlike India the US is not a third world country.

Nancy - I understand your point. You think people who need money and decide to be surrogates for this reason must be exploited, so they must not be allowed to be surrogates.

And I find this patronising, because I believe women should be able to do what they want with their bodies, including earning $30K for a new sports car or putting their son through university. I don't agree that this means they are being exploited.

No, you clearly don't understand the point at all.

I have not mentioned exploitation.

Nancy, for a start, I will be meeting any potential surrogate beforehand.

And, FWIW, the last time I was pregnant, I ate carefully, never touched a drop of alcohol, never smoked and the pregnancy ended tragically with the death of my baby and the loss of my fertility.

She could eat MacDonalds every day and it couldn't possibly end up any worse.

Sadly - people using surrogates in India can meet them as well if they wish.

Good luck if you decide to pursue this course of action.

I don't have problems with surrogacy at all - india, america, russia, uk - anywhere.

I just don't, necessarily, think the American system is any more desirable than the Indian one

I'm sorry to hear of your experiences SI
And wish you well for the future x

I suspect American surrogates possess a copy of the contract and are able to read it.

According to one site comparing the systems in America & India those living below the poverty line are not allowed to become surrogates in America (no idea how that could be policed).

Those are two fairly major differences for starters. All this talk of women making free choices to become surrogates rather suggests that the report I linked to (written by an Indian NGO) still hasn't been read by many.

Good luck sadlyinfertile! Personally I think there's a huge difference between what you're doing and the choices the Orchard's have made (dodgy Daily Mail reporting aside).

Providing 2 or 24 cells to a woman then expecting her to then give you back a baby that has grown, developed a heartbeat, and come to life in her womb, and expect her to ignore her baby for the rest of her life as you see it as yours and her only as a vessel is no different to turning a bind eye to human trafficking.

Where is the difference to how things were 200 years ago when the master would sleep with the slaves to get indentured people .

I find that comparison extraordinary novak. I can't imagine how it is relevant to women who choose to be surrogates. There are surrogates who are forced, others whose choice says more about their lack of options, others who make a fully informed choice... comparing them to slaves is absurd.

I've been a surrogate, 3 times, one child for one family and two for another and I am still in their lives despite the fact the oldest is nearly 11.

Up until this thread I have always thought 'fair play to them' in terms of Indian surrogates for overseas intended parents but I can see that I really haven't thought it through. I was looking at it as if these women had the same free choice and options I have but in reality their lives as so much more controlled and out of their hands. It really has made me think again.

I'm rather offended by Mumsnet's use of "baby-buying" in relation to surrogacy though, I have not sold any babies.

That all sounds as good as it can be OGB - great to hear you're involved in the lives of the families you helped in such an amazing way.

I've been a nanny to two families, but sadly we're not in touch now. Could look them up again sometime though I guess. (Someone mentioned a comparison with nannies staying in touch with the families they'd been with)

I have heard that many American surrogates are wives of army men. They need the extra money but are not below the poverty line. They move a lot and so haven't really built up a career or their own, and also, because they are often lone-parenting while their husbands are overseas, require work that they can do from home. And they have good insurance.

*of

The good clinics in India (see my post of the Times article above) are as good as if not better than US deals but unlike in the US it costs you less and what you pay transforms the life of the Indian better. Also in some ways British culture can be closer to Indian than American anyway in my view. YOu can certainly make a case that you do a lot more good picking an Indian surrogate than a US one.

The main issue I have is that women are restricted from doing this in the UK. That is not fair and must be changed. It is men controlling women and how we use our bodies by law. We should lobby to allow paid surrogacy in the UK.

Xenia - according the the report I posted there is no evidence (other than the word of the clinics) that it transforms the lives of the Indian surrogates. The researchers looked at that in 3 different areas and concluded that it made little difference.

It's ironic that you are complaining about men controlling women as that's exactly the criticism of the Indian clinics (it's the husband's decision, he spends the money, then in the worst case scenario abandons his wife).

"mummy when I was in your tummy........."

"No, darling you were never in my tummy, I hired a vessel.........."

People need money all over the world, what they get for it in india equals many years worth of pay, I have no problem with people paying for it in india or any other country.

my gripe is with the fact we don't, pay why should someone risk their health, end up in pain waddling about for a few months and get scares etc for free out of the goodness of their hearts perhaps if they paid them in this country people wouldn't go to india (same applies to other things like donating eggs, bone marrow etc, why should people be expected to help strangers for free, they would get a damn sight more takers if they paid em)

Absolutel, SunW. It should be legal here.

Also if people think some of the clinics in India are dodgy (they certainly are not all) then the answer is to improve regulation of them and publicise which are the ones to avoid, not to prohibit the activity.

If surrogacy was paid in the UK, you'd have people from all walks of life coming forward to be a surrogate for all the wrong reasons (perhaps to fund a drug habit). If it's done out of the goodness of your heart, then a childless couple will know that there's no hidden agenda.

Charity is one thing that seems to lack in certain quarters.......

lovechoc your argument re people doing it just for the money doesn't really hold much water tbh. Although currently surrogates are only allowed to call the money they get 'expenses', in reality it's much more.

How much do you think surrogates in the UK get, on average? I wouldn't be able to produce receipts to the sums involved...unless payment for the hot tub in my garden count, or the new car?