To question the jail sentence for the mum who stabbed her 4 year old?

[Liketochat1]

There's such a sad story of a mum who stabbed her 4 year old daughter in the news at the moment.www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9510938/Nurse-who-stabbed-her-four-year-old-to-death-gets-12-years.html.
She looks like such a broken woman. She not only killed her daughter but also tried to kill herself leaving herself with some brain damage and confined to a wheel chair with other physical disabilities. At the time of the attack she was depressed and facing charges for malpractice and had been left by her partner that day.
She has just been sentenced to 12 years in jail. Do you think she should be jailed? I can't help help but feel she's suffered so much already. Am I unreasonable?

And yet Maryz, the natural father was 'shocked' at the mums sentence and says he 'feels sorry for her'.

I read no money.

I thought it was a strange thing to say.

thebees
I would say that her reasoning even if showing premeditation (would depend on when she said it) also shows abnormal thinking. Most of us if we were faced with losing our jobs might panic a bit, we might look into benefits, ask our family or in this case our child's father for financial help etc. You might even consider more extreme options like theft or prostitution as a solution. I'm not sure many of us would consider murdering our children as an option,

FWIW her sentence is at the heavy end of the scale for Manslaughter. The CPS sentencing guidelines state in relation to diminished responsibility:-

"There will however be cases in which there is no proper basis for a hospital order, that in which the accused's degree of responsibility is not minimal. In such cases the judge should pass a determinate sentence of imprisonment, the length of which will depend on two factors: his assessment of the degree of the accused's responsibility his view as to the period of time, if any, which the accused will continue to be danger to the public.
Suppose a substantial element of responsibility remains with the defendant? See R v Wood [2010] 1 Cr. App. R. (S.) 2

The court could see no logical reason why, subject to the specific element of reduced culpability inherent in the defence, assessment of seriousness should ignore the guidance in Schedule 21 of the Criminal Justice Act 2003 regarding starting points for the minimum terms for murder. "

www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/sentencing_manual/manslaughter_diminished_responsibility/

Sentences for murder under CJA 2003 are based on a starting point for the term and then adjusted for aggrevating or mitigating factors. Had this been classed as a murder the starting point would have been a minimum of 15 years. It is possible that the age of the child and the fact it was her parent might well have been seen as aggrevating factors to increase the term.

However, the sentence of 12 years is, in all probability not a great deal shorter than the sentence she would have got for murder.

Stabbing is a very violent way to kill someone. Stabbing is usually spur of the moment and out of anger. Which is why I question why she chose this method n

Can I just say that drinking anti freeze in a very ineffective way to commit suicide and as a nurse she would have know that.

In fact when I worked near a forensic unit, during the winter the staff there were happy to leave their keys in their cars (swipe in/out, and guard ) system but they would double lock anti freeze, de icer as the patients knew if they drank it it was a trip to the local A/E. With little risk to themselves.

An A/E nurse, in particular, who really wanted to kill themselves knows any amount of ways to do it. Many fast and painless ways.

Never mind opioid drug what about insulin? You really feel like your only choice is death and that that the world is not safe for your child, as I said drugs, or again as I said as a nurse she would know how to slit an artery so as to bleed out in minutes, so why not?

I can get that she was depressed, I can get that she maybe/ possibly felt that her child had no future without her, but but to stab her child in a way that left her, that poor child to suffer, is just beyond the pale

Yes ghost more of a 'male' crime I would have thought. How could she have carried on, her daughter screaming and trying to fight her mum off! Incomprehensible.

So ( out of interest) what happens if you consume anti freeze? Obviously, she is now disabled. But how?

It effects the cardiovascular system and liver. It can make you have strokes, which would then effect your neurological system and in her case, render her disabled.

She might have taken it because it's easy to drink (apparently) its supposed to be sweet tasting. Which is why a lot of idiots use it to kill cats.

I don't generally agree with the notion that many threads on here are male-bashing; if it happens it is generally deserved, judging by the posts. But I have to agree that a man committing this act would receive far less sympathy. The background may explain it but does not excuse it, as many posters have already said.

Expat- I'm sorry. I can't imagine how awful this story must be for you. I'm still praying for you and your family.

The majority of people with mental health problems do not act in ways like this and it does anyone who has ever suffered from MH problems a great disservice to assume that they are all this detached from reality

Totally agree with you here. Most people with mental health problems are more a risk to themselves and not other people.

smellslikecats An A/E nurse, in particular, who really wanted to kill themselves knows any amount of ways to do it. Many fast and painless ways.

You are spot on here.

expat Im so very sorry for your loss.

I missed expats post. I'm so so sorry

Maybe I'm just affected by grief, but no, I can't muster up compassion for this individual. I just see too many who need it and really, truly have no choices at all. I read vindictive texts she sent, I read the fact that that child took hours to die at the hands of a nurse who would have known how to quickly despatch a person if that were her aim, who was found to be sane. And I see a dead child, have you ever seen a dead child? And 'there but for the grace . . . ' after you see that just sort of stops applying.

I agree with the sentence.

YABU! She deserves to go to prison, and for a lot longer than 12 years. Maybe she has MH 'issues' (what a load of crap) but that seems to be the excuse for everything these days. She killed her own daughter fgs, and in a truly monstrous way. How could anyone feel sympathy for this woman? Perhaps you should be feeling sympathy for the father who has not only lost his child, but has to live with the awful knowledge of how she died for the rest of his life.

I have reported some of the comments on here. Very sad.

I don't think the sentence is tough enough - and I hope for the rest of whatever life she has left the pain, fear, anguish and terror that she inflicted on her baby tears through her very being

NCForNow, please stop reporting. We're all adults and I don't think there's anything truely worth of deletion. It ruins the flow of the thread and gets a tad annoying when people can't say how they feel.

expat
I think most of us find it very hard to find much compassion for this woman. I am sorry for your loss and I can understand why you would have no pity for this person at all.

No ghosts I won't. In the Tia thread, there were plenty of people reporting the conversations that offended and were libelous or just plain rubber necking.

Why ate you reporting NC ? Because you don't personally agree?

Hardly libellous now she's been sentenced, though. Report if you wish and let MNHQ make the call.

This mother needs compassion and understanding, if she is to heal at all in years to come. However, her daughter had rights and needs too, and the act still happened, and her mother is responsible and should face the consequences. The daughter won't have the chance to heal (in this life).

NC there's no reason for reporting. Just because you don't like something that is said doesn't mean it's liable for removal.