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Original poster

To question the jail sentence for the mum who stabbed her 4 year old?

276 replies

Liketochat1 · 31/08/2012 13:56

There's such a sad story of a mum who stabbed her 4 year old daughter in the news at the moment.www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9510938/Nurse-who-stabbed-her-four-year-old-to-death-gets-12-years.html.
She looks like such a broken woman. She not only killed her daughter but also tried to kill herself leaving herself with some brain damage and confined to a wheel chair with other physical disabilities. At the time of the attack she was depressed and facing charges for malpractice and had been left by her partner that day.
She has just been sentenced to 12 years in jail. Do you think she should be jailed? I can't help help but feel she's suffered so much already. Am I unreasonable?

OP posts:
LadyClariceCannockMonty · 31/08/2012 16:38

Benefits, parents to help ...

All of these things are true. And yet she still felt that these horrendous acts were her only option.

I'd say again, can you IMAGINE being in a mental and emotional place where you felt that?

squeakytoy · 31/08/2012 16:46

I thought the childs father was very compassionate with what he said after the trial.

Nobody, probably not even the woman herself can explain what was going on in her mind that day. She was no doubt deranged with some sort of mental grief. It doesnt excuse her actions, but it does explain them.

TroublesomeEx · 31/08/2012 16:47

I understand very well how depression/mental illness can cause people to act in irrational ways/ways in which they can't remember following it, but I always worry about automatically 'understanding' or exonerating someone on the basis that they had depression/experiencing some other mental disorder largely because it only serves to add to the fear, lack of understanding and demonisation of people experiencing/suffering from mental health problems.

The majority of people with mental health problems do not act in ways like this and it does anyone who has ever suffered from MH problems a great disservice to assume that they are all this detached from reality.

No wonder there is such a stigma attached to MH problems.

FoxSake · 31/08/2012 16:48

Lady Clarice, I totally get what you are saying, I usually have upmost sympathy for people who are mentally I'll and commit a crime but there are few cases of both fathers and mothers recently that strike me that they are not mentally unwell but acts of anger and rage and wanting to make others feel pain. I understand how low you must be to take your own life but I cannot not ever imagine being so low I thought it was better to take my children with me. I do understand mothers with psychosis who murder their babies but these cases are not the same in my understanding, she was not psychotic, perhaps I am wrong.

LadyClariceCannockMonty · 31/08/2012 16:50

'I cannot not ever imagine being so low I thought it was better to take my children with me.'

Neither can I, FoxSake, and that's exactly my point. What a terrible, dark, horrendous place someone would have to be in. Literally beyond my darkest thoughts and fears.

TroublesomeEx · 31/08/2012 16:54

It sounds like she was suffering from a huge dose of embarrassment, fear of the future and selfishness following her having committed a crime and having already committed professional suicide.

I think many people have done stuff they regret and feel acutely embarrassed about. They generally move on. Perhaps she should have thought about the potential consequences before she broke the law.

This was a professional woman who was trusted by her employer and her patients and she betrayed that trust. She felt embarrassed about the things they'd now be saying about her.

I too think this thread would be reading very differently if she was a man.

expatinscotland · 31/08/2012 16:57

'I'd say again, can you IMAGINE being in a mental and emotional place where you felt that? '

That does not mean she does not merit a prison sentence. This is why she was found guilty of manslaughter and not murder.

porcamiseria · 31/08/2012 16:57

YABVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVU

she should be jailed

GhostShip · 31/08/2012 16:58

I understand depression very well. I've suffered with it for over 5 years, my mum even longer, she was on suicide watch. I've also worked with people with mental health problems.

Being depressed doesn't excuse someone of murder. If I go out and kill someone today would you say the same about me? That I don't deserve to go down because I'm depressed? Nope! And I wouldn't want you to either. We've got to use some common sense and stop making victims out of people.

GhostShip · 31/08/2012 17:02

In fact let's use my mums example:
She got pregnant with me when she was 18, very much in love with my father. When I was born he was killed 6 weeks later. (not to be confused with the dad I talk about on here, the man who brought me up ) my mum couldn't cope and wanted to kill herself. She even told me that at the time she wished id die in my sleep so she could kill herself. She didnt kill me though as you can obviously see.

That is why I have no sympathy for this woman. My mum went through so much but still clung on. I know people are different but stabbing your child and letting her die a painful slow death? Dispicable.

BlackberryIce · 31/08/2012 17:03

Couldn't care less if she faced a life on benefits living with a criminal record.....it was all of her doing

JustFabulous · 31/08/2012 17:09

"Mental illness is something that a lot of us don't seem to have a lot of sympathy or understanding of."

MissPerception you speak for yourself.

expatinscotland · 31/08/2012 17:13

It's not an excuse! She was not found to be insane!

Sossiges · 31/08/2012 17:14

12 years is not long enough.

LadyClariceCannockMonty · 31/08/2012 17:20

expat, I didn't say anything about whether she should or should not be in prison. I don't really know how I feel about that; need to think about it more.

I just have a problem with moral judgements on her actions using terms like 'evil', 'despicable' and 'she deserves nothing but misery'.

Walk a mile in another man's shoes ...

I think and hope I would be saying the same thing if we were talking about a man.

OhDearNigel · 31/08/2012 17:21

YANBU to question the jail sentence. I question it - why did she only get 12 years ? Anyone that can stab their own 4 year old and leave her to die deserves to rot in prison in my book

FrothyOM · 31/08/2012 17:21

I've had severe mental health problems. As a mother, I can't imagine how anyone could stab their DD and leave them to die a prolonged and agonising death.

People with mental health problems, including those with psychotic illnesses, are no more likely to commit murder than average people. It seems she has been found sane but people are assuming she must be insane. Depressing.

OhDearNigel · 31/08/2012 17:22

'evil',

So if you don't judge stabbing your own toddler to death as evil, what exactly would you judge ?

Why is everyone so afraid of judging ? Some people deserve to be judged.

BlackberryIce · 31/08/2012 17:23

ladyclarice you are making it found like she had found herself in an impossible situation not of her making.... All this walk a mile in her shoes..... Her suicide note indicated it was down to money!!

porcamiseria · 31/08/2012 17:24

"Mental illness is something that a lot of us don't seem to have a lot of sympathy or understanding of."

this is not about mental illness. Its about MURDER

LadyClariceCannockMonty · 31/08/2012 17:27

I just don't like or use the word 'evil' about people.

I'm not saying people can't commit appalling actions. Obviously they can. But terms like 'evil' just sound so ... Old Testament to me. Simplistic and sensationalistic, like a tabloid headline.

My point, which perhaps I'm not making that clearly although I keep reiterating it, is that someone who can stab their own child to death must be, for whatever reasons, in a place so horrific that I, along with most people, cannot even imagine it, for which I for one am grateful and about which I can't help but feel some compassion towards this person.

porcamiseria · 31/08/2012 17:28

I dont like the word evil in this context, and I dont think she is.
I do thionk some people are evil kllers however (Fred & Rose)

and I do have compassion for, she will be in living hell

but she should be jailed, definately

BlackberryIce · 31/08/2012 17:29

The word 'evil' is a legitimate word.

Many of us have faced a life of poverty. She was bitter as her Cody world had come to an end. No need to take her child's. None.

BlackberryIce · 31/08/2012 17:29

*cosy

hackmum · 31/08/2012 17:35

LadyClarice: "My point, which perhaps I'm not making that clearly although I keep reiterating it, is that someone who can stab their own child to death must be, for whatever reasons, in a place so horrific that I, along with most people, cannot even imagine it, for which I for one am grateful and about which I can't help but feel some compassion towards this person."

Same here. I think you and I are fighting a losing battle on this one, however. The idea that some people are just "evil" is deep-rooted and longstanding, and not easy to shake.

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