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Original poster

Ian Tomlinson's death 'not caused by Simon Harwood'?

100 replies

Solopower · 19/07/2012 15:42

No doubt the court that acquitted SH of IT's death had access to more information. I know it's simplistic, but I wonder if Ian Tomlinson would have died if he hadn't been pushed?

He said he was scared of the crowd at the time and his blood was up after having been humiliated by someone who wrote graffiti on a police van. So that's understandable then.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18851486

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Original poster
Solopower · 19/07/2012 15:44

To be fair, it must have been absolutely terrifying for the police that day. But the others behaved themselves.

I do wonder if the court would have come to the same verdict if it had been IT who had pushed SH.

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Original poster
Solopower · 19/07/2012 15:46

Oh, and this police officer was the subject of 10 complaints over 12 years, only one of which was proved against him. (The jury weren't told that - quite rightly).

It doesn't make me feel very safe to know that this bully is still out on the streets, presumably.

Will he at least lose his job?

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ttosca · 19/07/2012 16:02

A travesty, really.

Unfortunately, juries are reluctant to convict police officers.

There have been 333 deaths in police custody since 1998, and not one conviction:

Deaths in police custody since 1998: 333; officers convicted: none

IPCC study finds failure in care of vulnerable prisoners ? and says juries are unwilling to convict police officers

www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/dec/03/deaths-police-custody-officers-convicted

limitedperiodonly · 19/07/2012 16:23

The met have just made a statement saying they will proceed with the serious misconduct disciplinary they suspended at the time he was charged as long as they get formal permission from the Home Office.

They've also apologised for somehow missing his previous disciplinary misdemeanors which they said happened when he was employed at Surrey Police.

Thug.

TheMysteryCat · 19/07/2012 16:29

that is an absolute disgrace.

I truly cannot see how anyone could believe he was not guilty of unlawfully killing Ian Tomlinson.

the family are pursuing a civil case, but really PC Harwood should be locked up. he'd already been found to have unlawfully killed Ian Tomlinson at the Inquiry.

telsa · 19/07/2012 16:48

awful awful. No justice for the weak.

dranksinatra · 19/07/2012 16:55

We need a rebellion.

Original poster
Solopower · 19/07/2012 17:36

Do civil cases have juries? Will they be able to try him now that everyone knows about the previous allegations?

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CogitoErgoSometimes · 19/07/2012 17:59

He can't be tried for manslaughter again as he's been acquitted. I feel sorry for the Tomlinson family but I think the confusion around the precise cause of death and the fact that he was in a poor state of health generally made it difficult for the jury to make the direct link.

pointythings · 19/07/2012 18:04

I think this is an appalling verdict, what more do a jury want? They had video of the event FFS!

I really hope this man gets what he has coming in the end.

VivaLeBeaver · 19/07/2012 18:09

I came on here to see if there was a thread about this as I'm so shocked by the verdict.

How can a police officer be terrified of a man walking away from him with his hands in his pockets?

I've read online as well that in 2001 he was going to face internal proceedings against him for using excessive force. However he retired on health/medical grounds. When he was better and came back nothing was done/the internal proccedings were long forgotten. Surely something like that should have been on his record and have meant that he couldn't come back as a copper?

noddyholder · 19/07/2012 18:11

I really cannot believe it every time I see the footage I become more shocked Angry

SardineQueen · 19/07/2012 18:12

Shocking but not at all surprising.

At the start of so many cases you think "oh he'll never get found guilty" and that's the way it pans out.

I hope they succeed in their civil case. I feel for them so much.

The stuff that came out about the officer's past conduct and his being rehired and stuff is just so dodgy and the jury were not allowed to know about that.

WinkyWinkola · 19/07/2012 19:13

He's a thug. Earlier footage shows him hitting, kicking and dragging people about.

We are all safer on our streets now he's been acquitted. Hmm

Zero faith in our justice system.

I

ThePathanKhansWitch · 19/07/2012 19:17

Awful verdict. I really feel it for the Thomlinson family.

Why would Harwood not have been sacked from the MET first, being as he had been charged with a criminal offence?

MissM · 19/07/2012 20:10

Outrageous but sadly I would have been amazed if he'd been found guilty. Although the inquest found him so... Deeply deeply tragic and appalling travesty of justice for the poor family.

ttosca · 19/07/2012 21:10

He has a history of violence:

Ian Tomlinson: what jury didn't know about Pc Simon Harwood

PC Simon Harwood has a disciplinary record littered with complaints of aggressive behaviour and misconduct and once admitted being sent into "red mist mode", it can be disclosed today.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9404721/Ian-Tomlinson-what-jury-didnt-know-about-Pc-Simon-Harwood.html

SauvignonBlanche · 19/07/2012 21:13

It's shocking, I do hope he is removed from the police service.

frillyflower · 19/07/2012 21:22

He is a vile thug and a disgrace. How his wife can stand next to him I really don't know.

Feel so sorry for the family of Ian Tomlinson.

Ponders · 19/07/2012 21:32

someone from the Met was on the R4 news tonight & was very apologetic about him being allowed back in

she suggested that procedures will be tightened up & that this couldn't happen again

but, you know...Hmm

MissM · 19/07/2012 21:38

Just been watching the video of his family after the verdict. They are incredibly dignified, decent people. Feel absolutely disgusted on their behalf. They sound like an incredible bunch of people.

Sassybeast · 19/07/2012 21:56

I am speechless. The video footage is so clear. 'How' can this have happened ?

frillyflower · 19/07/2012 22:08

I can see why the police would want to protect PC Harwood but I can't understand that jury. What was wrong with them?

That footage is so horrible. Even before Ian Tomlinson was attacked he was being blocked and turned away by police. Why couldn't they have let him through their lines to go home? He was hardly a threat!

Ponders · 19/07/2012 22:31

\link{http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13268633\the inquest verdict was that he was unlawfully killed by Harwood}

'The jury decided Pc Harwood acted illegally, recklessly and dangerously, and used "excessive and unreasonable" force in striking Mr Tomlinson'

so how the hell could this jury decide Harwood was not guilty of manslaughter????

& Harwood said he wouldn't have pushed him if he'd known he wasn't well? WTAF?

Original poster
Solopower · 19/07/2012 22:37

Although I posted this, I do actually have a lot of respect for the justice system. If there wasn't enough evidence to connect SH's actions with IT's death then the jury had no choice.

But I think we need to keep calling the police to account. Too many people die in police custody and too few police officers are ever prosecuted. Why is this?

There are good people in the police force who are only doing their job, but it's also part of their job to get rid of the bad 'uns. They need to show them that there's no place in the police force for people who abuse their power or can't control their tempers. Their first loyalty has to be to us, the people they are paid to protect, not to each other.

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