Intensive mothers

[Xenia]

It seems pretty clear children benefit a lot if their mother has a good career and here is another piece of evidence of the damage housewives do to children:-

"Stay at home mothers are more likely to be unhappy than those who go out to work, according to new research.
Women who believe in "intensive parenting" are at risk of a range of mental illnesses including depression.

They think women are better parents than men, that mothering should be child centred and that children should be considered sacred and fulfilling.

This may put them in danger of suffering the 'parenthood paradox' where their ideology increases feelings of stress and guilt.

Psychologist Kathryn Rizzo, whose findings are published online in Springer's Journal of Child and Family Studies, said: "If intensive mothering is related to so many negative mental health outcomes, why do women do it?

"They may think that it makes them better mothers, so they are willing to sacrifice their own mental health to enhance their children's cognitive, social and emotional outcomes."
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She said parenting is a big task and requires a variety of skills and expertise. Many women rate the challenge as one of the most fulfilling experiences in life.

But some previous research has suggested it may be detrimental to mental health, with women reporting taking care of their children as more stressful than being at work.

So her team at the University of Mary Washington, Virginia, looked at whether intensive parenting in particular was linked to increased levels of stress, depression and lower life satisfaction among 181 mothers of children under five.

Using an online questionnaire, they found out to what extent the participants endorsed intensive parenting beliefs by measuring their responses to a series of statements.

These included "mothers are the most necessary and capable parent", "parents' happiness is derived primarily from their children" and "parents should always provide their children with stimulating activities that aid in their development".

Others were "parenting is more difficult than working" and "a parent should always sacrifice their needs for the needs of the child".

Overall, the women were satisfied with their lives but had moderate levels of stress and depression.

Almost one in four had symptoms of depression and these negative mental health outcomes were accounted for by their endorsement of intensive parenting attitudes.

When the level of family support was taken into account, those mothers who believed women are the essential parent were less satisfied with their lives. Those who believed that parenting is challenging were more stressed and depressed.

The researchers said overall, the women were satisfied with their lives but had moderate levels of stress and depression.

They added: "In reality, intensive parenting may have the opposite effect on children from what parents intend."

Earlier this year a study of more than 60,000 US mothers found 41 percent of those not in work experienced worry compared to 34 per cent of those employed.

And 28 per cent suffered depression, eleven per cent more than the others. Psychlogists fear the phenomenon is linked with feelings of isolation and a lack of fulfillment. "

www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9381449/Stay-at-home-mothers-more-unhappy-than-those-who-work.html

I work from home actually, in personal terms I'm rather an outsider. I will however defend the right of women to mother their children as they see fit.

As I said before historically women are shaped "socialised" to accept a version of themselves that fits with the needs of production. Under capitalism women have been opted into work during the war, sent back to the kitchen to buy hoovers in the 50's, dragged into the labour market post 80's because capital requires a different skills set, and so far like good little lambs we have written the feminist theory to fit with this dialogue.

I don't want other people raising my dc, I would hate it. I'd miss them. I could work, and I could pay for childcare but I wouldn't want to. I will work, but they are so young and not even at school yet. (youngest is 8 months). I think it is ultimately important to enable parents to have the choice. Because of our choice we go without holidays, but we have the benefit of being together. I think if I was working the holiday would be a big deal as that would be the quality time. I get quality time everyday

I went back to work pt after having my dcs. In Xenia's eyes I have let down the sisterhood. I even took one year's maternity leave for each dc with all the bottom wiping and fluffing/folding that entails.

That does not make me want to bitch about her secret envy of SAHMs (Lordy! you wish), her capitulation to the patriarchy (she is doing more to challenge the patriarchy that any SAHMs with dreaming spires of alternatives to capitalism) .

Her basic message is consistent. She is paving the way for your dd to be the next Bob Diamond. I sense some of you retching already but what a glorious position to challenge the status quo. Or even much less than that, I would wish that men see a proportionate number of women every step of the way up their career ladder without a drastic pruning at middle management, perhaps they would lose their massive sense of entitlement.

Fine you have made your choices, but your choices make it so difficult for other women (including your dds) who want to make a difference in something other than a domestic sphere. Shouldn't women all aim higher, and want, actually demand, more?

Many women I know who tell me that they refuse to be a 'wage slave' or to 'make money for a faceless corporation' are only in the position to make that choice because they are married to a man who is employed by just such a company.

They mainly fail to see the irony of this.

claig- I don't know that I fully agree. Dh pays 40% and his job is as important as my nursing (when I was working). He works long hours and pays all tax and actually overpaid and hmrc (thieving bastards) "lost" he rebate claim so when next was sent he could only claim small amount back. We receive no benefits for us as is right. So I don't think berating high tax payers is very fair at all

And dh doesn't work in finance. He's a software engineer.

blueshoes I have not bitched

And she's big enough to come here herself, and probably wouldn't be thankful of you fighting her corner as it were

Capitalism is just one embodiment of patriarchy. It's evolutionary, the fact is patriarchy came out of man's need to subsist, only when he discovered property did he make women his property, read Gerda Lerna, history of patriarchy. Capitalism is like every other economic system in our history, a system that serves men. 2/3rds of the worlds poor are women, 2/3rds of worlds workforce are women.

blueshoes a what is higher than happiness and freedom of choice?

I can understand that some women like to be at home with family and others, like Xenia, like forging their way in the workplace. That is a personal preference.

To be frank, anyone (who can afford it) can be a mother or homemaker. It does not take much effort or have quality control. But very few (men or women) can succeed the way Xenia does - that requires lots of study, effort, influencing people, projecting oneself consistently over years, likely decades.

It is too easy to choose the former and utterly predictable, along with the usual exhortations about feminine biology and maternal instincts. Of course, because of that, women get first dibs for the easy life, not the men, poor sods, who by their biology and love of working (apparently) don't get a look in.

If I see a woman like Xenia, I take note. Everything else is dull and banal.

The reason women receive mixed messages blueshoes is because we are the reserve labour force, the disempowered labour force and the worlds poor. men can not give birth or feed babies, they tried to sell us baby milk in cans and tell us it was better for baby! why? because they seek to control your reproductive and nurturing capacities.

All aspects of our lives, including our identities is shaped by the means of production.

I take no offence to you admiring xenia and I'm sure she has worked bloody hard. But I don't see life through your eyes, which is fine. I will not look back and regret not pursuing a high powered career, I know this. I would look back and regret not enjoying my children's childhood and being an active part of it. I will go back to work, I know I will do well, but right now, laying in bed nursing my beautiful daughter is where I want to be. Helping my wonderful preschooler with autism make the transition to school as smooth and happy as I can is my current goal. But that's me and if I'm boring, then so be it. I am happy tho (and I'm not saying Xenia isn't)

amillionyears, presumbly about Xenia:

'wordfactory,we do like her.
And some of us know things that maybe you dont know.
I do for one.
But we do, one time, need to tell the teacher if the girl needs help.'

Honestly, you just sound unhinged.

I've been reading Xenia on mumsnet for about 9(?) years now. I love her refusal to feel guilty and the fact she loves her work and is unapologetic about that. I respect her for that. I was SAHM while my children we're very little but it never ever would be enough for me to stay at home for the rest of my life.

I wish she wouldn't dress it up with cod-evolutionary psychology, comments about IQ and state educated children with their common accents. She has no interest in changing the status quo, just maximising her profit within it.

Mini, you know the messages the patriarchy sends out (even if I don't necessarily agree about the Big Conspiracy).

But then why roll over and play dead. That is precisely what the Patriarchy wants. Why take the passive role of woe is me, all the cards are stacked against me, so I shall just Opt Out and be with my kiddiewinks and let myself be supported by the manly mug of a man who is a wage slave to the patriarchy himself.

@blue The way that I think she is paving is for our DDs to have choices. It may very well be that nobody's DD would ever want to be Bob Diamond (and why would they? That's a discredited occupation for the foreseeable). But if our DDs want to set up their own businesses or firms in non 'female' areas like she has done, then it will be that little bit easier for them. If our DDs see the articles she has written and that have been written about her, or hear her speak, they will know that it is possible to be a successful woman in a traditionally male career and still have a family etc.

In my own career, I know for a fact - because I have been told - that in my own smallscale way I have had a direct positive impact on many women in my own organization (in many different countries) and women doing broadly similar roles to me in other firms. These women have been able to argue for flexible or home/distance fulltime working either as a path back into work after having a baby or from the outset (as a new appointment) because 'metabilis3 does it and it's working out very well for her'. Because I have a profile in my own particular niche within my profession, I've had people in other firms ring me to ask how I make it work, living where I do, haing the number of kids I do, yet doing the job that I do, when considering making appointments or when considering applying for jobs. In all cases, I've been able to explain to these men and women how it's fine, it works well, and the appointments have been made (and have been successful). This isn't something that's happened once or twice, it's happened at least 10 times. Women who challenge the status quo make things better for the next woman who comes along. Women who stay at home saying I could have been successful if I had wanted to make things worse.

Nobody should be forced into slavery whether that's wage slavery or kitchen sink slavery but there are so many mothers who are working anyway - the majority of mothers work - that it's time to actually look at how to help those women and if it means the SAHMs learning a bit of honesty and stopping with the made up justifications for staying at home that paint those who dont as uncaring monsters then that's what they should do.

@Mama (telling username) Other people are not 'bringing up' my kids. If you were working Pt or even FT the only reason that 'other people' would be bringing up your kids would be if you gave them away. Working mums bring up their own kids. It's mendacious to claim otherwise.

@pendulum Increasingly it seems to me that it is an issue of education.

'But then why roll over and play dead.'

But it is not rolling over and playing dead. Mini is right that we live in a system, the system created by the Man. Some people question teh system and look for new ways of living e.g. teh hippy movement or feminists who lived in communes or people on kibbutzes etc. I don't agree with all of them and wouldn't choose to live that way myself, but I don't think they are rolling over, I don't look down on them because they aren't earning megabucks and aren't highfliers. I think they were trying to find something new, and teh lessons that they learned slowly change our whole society and affects us too.

Oh dear blueshoes????????? "Big Conspiracy"

Women are not being passive, they are 2/3rds of the worlds worforce!!!!!!!!

I do think things could be made easier for working mothers. Affordable quslity childcare, for example.

metabilis how naive you are if you believe that the childcare isn't influencing your children therefore parenting. My name was changed due to being outed, but read into it what you wish if it makes you feel better. (personal attack much?). Regardless, my POV is the same. Having the choice is what matters. It doesn't make one woman a better or worse woman than another IMO. It's all about choice

Actually why on earth is there all this sniping? Can't we just all
Want for everyone to have freedom of choice?

I'm not the one who is naive. I'm the one with great kids who are doing really well, in many different areas, not just the brainy stuff, who are really happy, and who aren't growing up listening to a lot of coulda shoulda woulda whining.

I am American, Metabilis and sadly have no Radio 4. :)