What punishment do you think the British legal system would deem appropriate for someone who rapes a 5 year old?

[Mintyy]

I'm not going to link because I saw this in the Daily Mail. But, really, am truly horrified.

Clearly you can't read as I did NOT say that.

Perhaps you need to re read. Even in the quote you posted from me it does not say that.

You think that post to dotty was sympathetic?

The bunging in of faces and stating "odd" seems otherwise to me.

I will stop talking about it now as it is dotty not me you said it to.

But genuinely I have been quite shocked at your reaction to her.

no she thought I meant that was the reason I was glad she wasn't my counseller that wasn't the reason at all as I've told her

Does anyone know of a petition to get this 14yo locked up?
I would like to help if anyone has a petition started or knows how to start one?
Or does anyone know of anything else that we could do?

pumpkin send an email to the attorney general to complain about an unduly lenient sentence

the link a couple of posts up has the email address and how it all works and everything like that

Thanku SQ

One big problem, you have to know the perpatrators name?, his identity is not known

pumpkin it says this on there

"Don't worry if you don't have all the information, but the more you can give us, the more likely it is that we will find the right case."

If you say the judge and the court and the ages of the children and so on I am sure they will know what case you mean

In cases like this its understandable that he's not named but I think it's wrong. I know their not named under 18 in England and Wales and 16 in Scotland.

I haven't read the whole thread but I am a victim of a peodophile who was abused as a child.

I have not abused.

He did.

Yes were are both victims of childhood sexual abuse but he is responsible for his decision to become an abuser and therefore is responsible for his crime.

I was his 4th known victim. Wether he was evil or damaged to be evil, evil he was and responsible he was.

20% of abusers have been abused though, not 80%. Many abusers are just evil.

Thankyou for the link to the attorny

Stuff done!

Sq - if you read wot I had written you'll find that everything comes from the posted article - there isn't anything that I have access to, and so be able to link to. I haven't interpreted anything.

It also seems that Laurie has been woefully mis-quoted, esp towards dotty. But things like that happen from time to time.
Of all of the poor decisions by sentencers that happen, I am suspecting the lack of full disclosers in a case involving a juvenile, and the fact that a Youth Offending Team's report will be confidential to the Court ( and not read out) means there will be some directly relevant factors we don't know about, and so compromise an appeal re undue leniency.

Pan we both misunderstood each other on that point I did try to tell her I didn't mean that.

Isnt it a good job that this judge wasnt the judge for the james bulger murder. Poor wee things who were corrupted by that nasty film and just couldnt help themselves.

This is sick, this boy has basically been told that its ok to rape somebody because he couldnt help himself. He should be locked up.

sorry dotty - I think I was responding to Sq's mistaken summing up. I have no place to comment on your experience at all. But the notion of 'evil' generally is such a cop-out for society. i.e in this case, he is a lost cause and should be abandoned to decades of prison, which I don't accept for most people. Sorry again.

As a sort of relevant bye-the-bye, I have chaired about 10, or so, events called ?You be the Judge? where the public get to judge on real cases. I chair, and am supported by a judge, a magistrate, a CPS prosecutor and a defence solicitor. (google it if you wish, something will be there - I haven?t)

We give a public audience some brief detail of the case, a bit like this one, and invite sentencing. Overall, the public sentence really harshly.
We then provide full disclousure. All reports, all witness statements etc ( suitably redacted).

The upshot is that in every case, the public sentence MUCH more leniently in terms of punishment than the sentencing judge had. The public, once all facts are known, are much more interested in prevention and rehabilitation than the judiciary, who have an eye on commonly held public opinion and the fear of being appealed against. Part of the problem ( again) is that judges and magistrates have to rely on an adversarial system, which makes them LOTS of money, rather than the interests of the victim or offender. Pure facts delivered to the public reveals, every time, they have a better grasp of what?s really important.

Laurie it is not the case that there are 2 abused children, there is one abused child and one perpetrator.

As you say, bye the bye, Pan.

How many of these cases of yours have involved the rape of a 5 year old?

Yes Pan, how many?

Wow, interesting, Pan!

I have to say, re the judge, and his prior record on these cases, we know of 4 cases, which have been reported in the media, where he appears (from the media stories) to have been lenient towards sex abusers. We have no information at all about what proportion of his cases this represents, or if he is usually lenient, or otherwise.

And to Dotty, I want to say that I know your experience has been dreadful. I am very sad for you. I hope you are able to move on from this terrible experience, at least in some measure. But this boy is not your brother.

In the case of this boy I don't think he necessarily got off lightly, it depends on how widely known the case is locally. Being locked up and then quietly released might be inoculating against the impact of his crime against being in a community that know of his crime. That said, poor victim/victim's family if he is still living next-door as a neighbour.

YBTJ? - well, they weren't my cases to begin with - they were selected by a group - in total there were about 25 cases. We chose them as they were 'controversial' largely, with some ASBO cases which really engaged the audience.
The nearest to this particular case were two, which involved a rape of a 10 y.o. girl, and one of a repeat indecent exposure toward a particular victim, who was 14 y.o. ( indecent exposure is a compulsive act, rather like collecting masses of abusive images.)

I raised that point about YBTJ to indicate that the administration of criminal justice is instutionalised, and serves the needs of the institution ( and it's financial beneficiaries) and not in the interests of the public. The public would be much wiser sentencer, imho.

Also, the ASBO cases took up MUCH more time than the sex offender cases. The interest was 'what involves me day to day' rather than the more complex issues of justice in more detailed and personal cases.

Jesus do you honestly work with rape victims
Laurie?

As someone who was raped at 4yo, I feel that the ONLY thing that would be RIGHT to do in any case of rape of a young child is life imprisonment in isolation for the offender. Because THAT'S what they leave their victim with.

I don't give two shiny SHITS about whether the 14yo was a victim of watching porn or not - what lily livered FUCKERY is THAT?

I was raped and abused as a child - I haven't gone out and raped anyone else. That excuse IS JUST BOLLOCKS ANYWAY.

IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO SOMEONE IN THEIR LIFE, THEY ARE STILL RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR OWN ACTIONS.

All these fucking do-gooders have NO FUCKING IDEA what it is like to be the child who is actually raped, do they? They have no idea of the lasting effects, even 26 years later...

And as for this judge, hanging would be too good for him. How many people's lives have the paedophiles he has let off ruined SINCE he has let them off? The student at Cambridge Uni that was let off had MADE indecent images involving children FFS. Do you not think that ruined those children's lives - paedophiles will still be looking at those images when that child is 30/40yo.

Some people just don't WANT to understand the long-reaching consequences of being a young child used for sexual gratification like this, and then finding out or knowing that if your abuser or rapist had been locked away in isolation after a PREVIOUS incident, it would never have happened to YOU. Can you imagine how angry and disturbed and distrusting of the legal system and laws in this country that would make you, even as an adult?!