Jimmy Carr tax avoidance

[Poulay]

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/celebritynews/9343267/Taxman-to-challenge-loophole-that-shelters-millions-for-Jimmy-Carr.html

Carr is an utter utter scumbag.

I work in the self-employed sector and have heard of these scams schemes, whereby supposedly you avoid tax by taking out a spurious 'loan' in order to reduce your income to zero. And I and all those I spoke to said 'this is not a legitimate scheme'.

I don't see any difference between this and fraud or theft. Long prison sentences are in order for these scum. He is using our fucking public services and refusing to pay for them.

People made a lot of noise about Red Ken getting paid through a limited company, but at least the limited company paid Corporation Tax. Carr is paying nothing.

How can he possibly think it is legitimate, legal or reasonable to say that his millions he earns are actually a loan on the never never? He is an intelligent man and should be made to pay the price of his actions. No fucking excuses.

I doubt he will be able to do it for much longer, in the face of public opinion. It's brought the whole K2 scheme into the limelight - bet the managers are regretting allowing him to join.....

AFAIK 'avoidance' isn't illegal. Carr won't have dreamed this up by himself but it will have been proposed by his accountants. If there's a loophole that needs closing, it'll be closed. But that's why they are called loopholes....

What he is doing is completely legal. There are many things that you may not like that are legal, it doesn't make it a scam as you say, and it doesn't justify you saying no fucking excuse or this is not legitimate

I don't like porn, or people that wear low rise trousers with underwear showing, or people that don't pay tax getting a vote on how my taxes are spent (to give three random examples!) However all of these are legal.

Therefore YABU to take that tone about a gentleman who is WITHIN the law.

I presume that you make use of your personal tax free allowance every year? Because its legal. However maybe thats not moral, maybe you voluntarily pay tax on that sum even though you don't have to by law? no? thought not. So why is Jimmy Carr different why should he voluntarily pay tax on money that BY LAW there is a way he doesn't have to? When you don't?

avoidance isn't illegal. this is just clever tax planning and the loophole will be closed very quickly. the problem is that closing a loophole can open another so it has to be done very carefully.

tax legislation in this country is very complex so is easy to exploit.

Whether he came up with the idea or not he certainly knew about it and he is a first class hypocrite given how much he goes on about the banks (who did nothing different).

apparently he told an audience last night that he pays tax, just not more than he needs to. amazing arrogance.
i don't get it, though, i don't get how you can get rich and think that all the things that got you where you are; the hospital you were born in, the school you were educated in, the benefits you may have claimed etc etc, are somehow not your responsibility now that you don't need them. it's crazy. what happens to these people?

I think, a lot of the time, those of us on PAYE who have no choice about how much tax to pay are just a little jealous of those with enough money to employ accountants and pay less. Who doesn't feel happy when they get a tax rebate?

I bet if his house was burgled he would call the police, or be happy to use an ambulance. And I bet the street lighting comes in handy when he comes home late. In fact, the on street parking he uses has fairly recently been resurfaced. perhaps they shouldn't have bothered

He was lampooing the banks recently - maybe they pay as much as they think they need to? He's such a hypocrite!

I'm sure someone very vocally against the austerity measures will soon be outed as a tax avoider!!

Will this come up as one of the top five stories of the week on 8 Out Of 10 Cats?

Hmmmm

This is the opposite end of the same turd which gets UK-uncut and the various opponents of Vodafone, Phillip Green and PWC hot under the collar. No one has done anything illegal here, it may seem immoral, but that's a different matter completely. Where the problem stems from (as CinnabarReds brilliant threads show) is the complexity of the tax (and by extension the tax credit and benefit) systems in this country. The British tax code is made up of over 11,000 pages of laws, rules and regulations. These, I understand, can be debated and challenged endlessly meaning that even the revenue can't work out how much an individual or organisation owes.

Simplification of the tax rules is long overdue.

well Jimmy Carr is rubbing Osbornes nose in the doggy do. Because what is was doing is not new. And surely there are other big names doing it. I suspect THE TIMES have other names and they will eventaually be public by one means or another. Thats how the English media works.

MrPants - completely agree that this is a product of the complexity of the tax system

and the legislation i've seen stretches to well over 30,000 pages!

I looked at these schemes for my own use, I have worked with people on these schemes, and my conclusion was that they are illegal.

If the money is a loan it should be repaid, and interest paid at market rates. If it is not a loan it is a gift and therefore taxable.

It is really not a product of complexity, the complexity comes as a result of attempts to clamp down on these types of scams.

I hope that he will be like Angus Deayton on Have I Got News For You, his credibility shot.

He is a cunt.

I have always hated him and this has just confirmed it. These twats are avoiding tax on such a scale that to imprison/fine everyone else who does it is a scandal.Think of the money that could be generated from these people

How this should go down IMO:

• K2 gets investigated by HMRC
• K2 say in course of investgation 'actually these are real loans, and now we want our money back'
• K2 recalls 'loans', Jimmy Carr to repay all the money he's received through this scam
• Carr cannot repay money because he's spent it
• Carr goes bankrupt
• We all laugh long and hard.

I couldn't care less if it's illegal or not illegal.

It is completely immoral and anyone who avoids tax should be ashamed.

forums.contractoruk.com/accounting-legal/79383-stuff-you-need-know-about-loan-schemes.html

There's tax avoidance and there's tax evasion.

If I avoid tax by using my ISA allowance instead of keeping money in savings accounts, that's tax avoidance. Or if I stick £100k into my pension scheme instead of taking out as income (knowing that when I retire the income will be taxed then), that's also tax avoidance. Both are legitimate - ISAs are a means to encourage people to save for the future, and pensions likewise; further if the money is in a pension scheme you cannot enjoy it until retirement.

But if I decide I want to have my cake and eat it - to take money as income now, and not to pay tax on it, that's tax evasion

Simple solution IMO:

The Jimmy Carr Is a Cunt Act 2012

Be it enacted by the Queen?s most Excellent Majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the Lords Spiritual and Temporal, and Commons, in this present Parliament assembled, and by the authority of the same, as follows:?

1. All monies paid to Jimmy Carr through the K2 scheme shall be treated as income, and taxed at the highest income tax rate in effect at the time they were received.

END

It's legal. Right now it's the same as me having an ISA.

It's not right but it is legal.

Instead we should be campaigning for these loopholes to be closed.

I see a lot of these sort of schemes in the course of my work. In fact I got a letter today from St James' Place, attempting to sell me such a product, headlined "Paying Tax is Now Optional" which I thought was pretty objectionable.

Most of them sail close to the wind legally and I wouldn't go near them. It's not the same as your personal allowance or an ISA. These are highly engineered products developed to take advantage of some loophole in the law - personal allowances and ISAs have social benefits (incentivising work especially for thelow paid, or saving). These schemes only allow the wealthy to avoid paying what the law intended them to pay. It may be legal but only in the same way that that lawyer who gets celebs off their speeding fines is legal - it's legal but it's not in the spirit of the law.

Anyway the important point is that Jimmy Carr is a twat. I had a friend who worked with him before he was famous and she found him horrendous then - 10 years ago. So Christ knows what he's like now.

No it is not the same as having an ISA, that's absurd.

The government ENCOURAGES people to put their money into ISAs. They are designed by the government to provide tax-free savings. There is annual limit of around £10k.

These scams were designed by dodgy accountants to avoid tax. Many such schemes have been investigated by HMRC and found to be illegal, and these types of schemes are collectively costing us a fortune, hundreds of millions. You can enter into any scheme you like, and you might get away with it for a year, five years, or forever. That doesn't make it legal, any more than shoplifting is legal if you don't get caught, or builders working cash in hand is legal.

There is no comparison at all.

The number of men that do this in divorce cases is ridiculous it should be closed as a loop hole for that reason alone.

A lot of these things are legal though. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it isn't legal.

HMRC set up the Disclosure scheme precisely so they could hear about these schemes early enough to shut them down quickly. In most cases it is not possible to apply the change in law retrospectively so speed is of the essence!

My opinion is that they are not legal, however just because the schemes have been disclosed to HMRC doesn't mean they can be shut down overnight - there are lawyers on £1k/hour+, working on these schemes, and HMRC is outgunned.

But look at the 'morally repugnant' corporate scheme that was shut down in the budget - 2 months after it was disclosed.