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Original poster

Jimmy Carr tax avoidance

115 replies

Poulay · 20/06/2012 13:50

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/celebritynews/9343267/Taxman-to-challenge-loophole-that-shelters-millions-for-Jimmy-Carr.html

Carr is an utter utter scumbag.

I work in the self-employed sector and have heard of these scams schemes, whereby supposedly you avoid tax by taking out a spurious 'loan' in order to reduce your income to zero. And I and all those I spoke to said 'this is not a legitimate scheme'.

I don't see any difference between this and fraud or theft. Long prison sentences are in order for these scum. He is using our fucking public services and refusing to pay for them.

People made a lot of noise about Red Ken getting paid through a limited company, but at least the limited company paid Corporation Tax. Carr is paying nothing.

How can he possibly think it is legitimate, legal or reasonable to say that his millions he earns are actually a loan on the never never? He is an intelligent man and should be made to pay the price of his actions. No fucking excuses.

OP posts:
Dropdeadfred · 20/06/2012 16:17

I do t understand one point though... He must 'have' the money in the first place to pay it into the loan scheme - a record must be kept if what Ge paid in to know how much to 'loan' him back, so why was he not liable for tax the minute he initially had the money regardless of where he decides to then pay it into?

EverybodysSleepyEyed · 20/06/2012 16:25

JC is an employee of the offshore company. When he does any work that employer pays the company for his services. So it doesn't fall within income tax

The money going out isn't the problem as such and it wouldn't be easy to deal with that without having huge unintended consequences in other areas of tax, it is how he is getting it back in that can be tackled

Original poster
Poulay · 20/06/2012 16:27

It's probably paid directly to the scheme.

So when he plays at say the Chatham Theatre next week, which is funded by his audience's taxes, he will get them to send the money directly to Blue Cube, which is his company.

And when bought his house for millions, he didn't pay tax (stamp duty) on that either, because that was bought through a company.

And then the odious little turd tried to object using the planning system he refuses to pay for, to social housing being built opposite the house he avoided tax on. www.dailymail.co.uk/property/article-1265689/Hothouse-property-gossip-Jimmy-Carr-fears-peeking-neighbours.html Thankfully his objections were overruled and the development went ahead. Probably his new neighbours pay more tax than he does.

OP posts:
Original poster
Poulay · 20/06/2012 16:31

I looked in the dictionary under shameless and found this:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXibReHW3UA

OP posts:
ajandjjmum · 20/06/2012 16:32

But hopefully he (or his company) will have to pay capital gains tax when he comes to sell the house. And presumably he is paying a market rent?

glastocat · 20/06/2012 16:35

Its perfectly legal, but completely immoral IMO.

EverybodysSleepyEyed · 20/06/2012 16:36

i should imagine the house is owned by an offshore company and the rent is paid by his other offshore company!

Original poster
Poulay · 20/06/2012 16:36

This is the company that owns the house:

bizzy.co.uk/uk/06855155/offence-defence

I would be surprised if the company pays tax. You can download the records for £1 at Companies House.

OP posts:
EverybodysSleepyEyed · 20/06/2012 16:53

He is a partner of cobalt. See how many other names you recognise on the list!

Aboutlastnight · 20/06/2012 16:55

Lots of things are legal. Being legal doesn't make it the right thing to do.

drjohnsonscat · 20/06/2012 16:58

I guess the offshore thing is to avoid stamp duty on the house rather than CGT? I thought that useless Osbourne was going to clamp down on that in the budget - but I think he only partially closed it down.

Aboutlastnight · 20/06/2012 17:00

Mind you, this is a man who did PR for Shell IIRC

frankie4 · 20/06/2012 17:07

I think there needs to be a rethink on how we esteem people in the public eye. People get OBE's and knighthoods if they give a lot of money to charitable causes. However, they may not be paying all their taxes, which king of defeats the object. So it would be better if the country gives good publicity to those public figures who pay all their tax and promoted em as people to look up to.

banyan · 20/06/2012 17:39

It's interesting for me as I've recently made the switch from being a PAYE employee to being freelance through my own Ltd company. The tax is completely different - I earn my money (not millions, probably just into higher rate if it were paye) and the accountant wants me to offset lots of expenses (all legit like phone, stationery) to reduce what I pay corp tax on. And then I take salary up to personal allowance level so no income tax and the rest as dividends so only 20% tax. It should end up meaning I pay less tax than if I earned that amount as an employee but a) I take on more risk as self-employed as patchy income and in some ways this is the benefit to counter that risk and b) it's all legal and completely appropriate for owner of ltd company to do this. I'm not trying to evade tax, I'm just managing my particular affairs in the most tax-efficient way which is sensible and so should everyone. And I have no moral qualms about what I'm doing, but i wouldn't then offshore my money to pay less because imo i earn in the UK, i live in the UK so i should pay what i owe in the UK. Some of you may think I'm morally wrong to pay dividends which incur less tax than if I took it all as salary and paid income tax, but i don't. But then morality is all a personal opinion really.

My DH earns 6 figures and pays a fortune in tax. He hates the 50% tax rate but doesn't avoid it in any way. As he's PAYE it's what he owes and he pays it, and it's a lot of money.

My issue with jimmy Carr is not so much how he pays himself (if that is legal - if illegal then absolutely should be condemned) but he is hypocritical in attacking fat cats and my opinion is that he clearly does not have any moral decency etc.

I had a friend who earned millions. He's now a tax exile and can't come back for friends weddings or holidays because he might have to pay too much tax. He's chose money over real happiness with friends and family, and he would still have more than enough to live on as well as his friends if he'd stayed. Sad sad sad.

banyan · 20/06/2012 17:41

Sorry that's a real ramble, isn't it? Apologies!Blush

JosephineCD · 20/06/2012 18:08

I don't see what he;s done that is so wrong. Nobody pays any more tax than they have to. When you see how wasteful and inefficient the public sector is, who can blame people for thinking they can spend their own money more effectively?

He's a hypocrite though for pretending to be a lefty. I bet a lot of the other posh lefty comedians are doing exactly the same. Just as Polly Toynbee, Billy Bragg et al are.

SardineQueen · 20/06/2012 18:24

I always thought he was a nasty little bastard and this proves it.

Thanks OP Smile

UnimaginitiveDadThemedUsername · 20/06/2012 18:36

I don't think Jimmy Carr is 'pretending to be a lefty', josephine.

I don't think he's anything. Other than a jobbing comedian, saying things to get laughs.

merrymouse · 20/06/2012 19:05

Banyan, there is less tax on dividends because theoretically company profits have already been taxed via corporation tax.

I agree with Poulay, particularly about the loan being a gift at the very least. I don't see how this 'loophole' can be legal. I think the reason people try it on is because

  1. it might slip past HMRC if nobody notices (or people might be able to save some tax until HMRC notices/legislation changes)
  2. the sums of money are so large that it is worth their while to spend loads of money on lawyers who will argue the toss and delay a decision (or at least argue that a change in the law needs to be made and tax can't be charged retrospectively).

I am sure JC could manage his affairs so that he could pay very low tax and still be perfectly above board. However, many high earners (and their tax accountants) seem to take it as a point of pride to pay no tax at all.

Aboutlastnight · 20/06/2012 20:03

I can't believe this was the top story on News at Ren. And Cameron is sticking his oar in Hmm

UnimaginitiveDadThemedUsername · 20/06/2012 20:09

Top story on C4 News as well. Maybe it will be on 8 Out Of 10 Cats.

maxpower · 20/06/2012 20:18

poulay, are you under the impression that JC is the only person in the UK avoiding tax? Your comments seem very personally directed at him in particular

as others have said, what he's doing isn't illegal - he's just in an advantageous position of being able to afford ot pay an accountant who can work out how he gets to keep his money.

the real issue here is the unacceptable cuts that have been made to the HMRC and the need to close the loopholes that allow these practices.

CelineMcBean · 20/06/2012 20:23

If this isn't illegal it should be.

I expect if I were to punch him in the nose for being an odious, immoral bastard he would expect me to have redress via the legal system and treatment via the health system he hasn't paid into but I have? I am tempted to give do that just for the irony.

CelineMcBean · 20/06/2012 20:24

Extra "me" in there.

EverybodysSleepyEyed · 20/06/2012 20:25

The main problem with HMRC is that they don't have suitably qualified staff. And that was a problem before the cuts.

As for JC, he is an easy target because of his hypocrisy! The papers will be picking on any tax avoiders who have very publicly come out against the cuts next.