Controlled Crying - stress levels stay high even when babies have learned to settle themselves.

[Codandchops]

OMG!!!

Even worse is that I could not bear to leave my DS as a baby so used to sit in the room and re-settle him every 5 mins. How shit is that? He could see me for 5 mins at a time not comforting him (even though after every 5 mins I did comfort him).

Have always felt an irrational guilt about DS's autism and wonder if I made things worse .

Need to read the research and look at numbers involved.

Funny, good grief. I have no words. Those poor caged children!

My DS is 19 months old, been a truly terrible sleeper, I BF him still, co-sleep. He'd wake a minimum of 6 times a night, that a minimum (feeding). I've known real sleep deprivation I can tell you, been on my knees at times but I could never leave him cry it out. I believe the scientific research on cortisol levels being damaging through CC so just hung in there hoping much to the dismay of other parents at playgroups etc telling me to just do it.

Two months ago he stopped waking up in the night, just like that, occasionally he wakes once for 5 mins for a quick feed and sleeps 12 hours. He naps every day as well for 2 hours. This is a relief as I'm pregnant again. He got there in his own time and I'm glad.

Yes I had a period of hardship, but at the end of it he's a darn good sleeper and I didn't need CC to get there.

GreyGardens: Yes! Don't people think I tried to soothe him in every way I could think of? I'm not stupid, so of course I did. I cuddled, I sang, I hummed, I shshsushed, I bounced on a ball, I went up and down stairs, I bfed, I caressed, I danced, I prayed, I put on some white noises, I put on the hoover and the washing machine, I co slept, I put him upright, not upright, etc etc. Nothing worked, nada!

cuddler

"One thing i must point out,is that people who ap are constantly being badgered about their parenting,but once it turns and things like formula and controlled crying are criticized,then its not on all of a sudden is it?"

I really don't think that is the case, I have never read a thread on here that someone has said "you should bottle feed" "you should use controled crying" but I have read plenty of posts from ap parents or similar criticising these things. Stating that they are the "wrong" thing to do. Most of the responses to ap parenting are along the lines of "well if that works for you that's good but it's not for me" hardly judgy is it?

As funny said there isn't a pressure group for these but there is for ap.

I think the fact that ap parenting is a whole "style" of parenting makes some of the people that follow it feel that it is the "right way" where as a lot of mothers just parent, they muddle through taking advice from people or just doing what they think is right.

CC basically involves teaching a child that no-one comes when they cry so they stop bothering. I personally want my children to know that when they cry (i.e. they only way they have of telling me that they need something) I will be there. That's how they develop self-confidence and independence. I firmly believed users of CC are storing up trouble for later in their children's lives. And we never had sleepless nights - when the babies woke up, if they wouldn't settle after a feed I just let them sleep in the bed. And now, as older children, if they wake up in the night I let them sleep in the bed with us. The consequence? Very happy settled children who sleep through the night and were never subjected to hours of screaming.

But I add......that was my choice and I wouldn't drum it down peoples throats but for anyone with a bad sleeper...it does get better!!!

Good lord it's a minefield. Either they cry and attract a passing T-rex who might be hungry, or they are imprisoned in a cot to develop all sorts of anguish, or they hop in with us only to be crushed by himself who sleeps like a baby (loving the irony there..), or we impose a routine only to be banded child abusers or we carry them about permanently attached to a nipple and are considered hippies instead. Oh hold on a minute... I've just remembered... this is the wonderful world of parenting... YOU CAN'T WIN!!!! So chill out and enjoy the ride...

I have not read the entire thread as I am not a fan of controlled crying. I did it with my son and has made him fearful of bedtime.

HOWEVER controlled crying DOES NOT cause autism. The refrigorator mother theory has been debunked many years ago by idential twins studies of children who were seperated at birth. Idential twins developed autism whether the adopted parents were Dr Sears devotees or fans of Truby king.

It takes really extreme abuse to pychologically damage child. Certainly some of the children who were stuck in romainan orphanages are very severely damaged. However there were twenty babies to one adult in a room who were not properly changed and fed yet alone cuddled.

Autism is genetic and evidence for a genetic component is incredibly strong.

Snap catus, we had no preconceived ideas of how to bring up a baby, I just wanted one who slept and didn't cry all the time, whether being breastfed, in a sling or even co-sleeping. Own bedroom, CC, own cot (evil cage!), they all worked. I think all of our family stress levels would have gone through the roof had we not!

Becksharp what if your baby cried regardless, being breastfed, in a sling, in your bed? That's what mine was like.
I want to also say formula at 6 months helped but I will probably get crucified.

Funny, I'm not having a go at you. I was just pointing out to caton that some people may have been accused of abuse for using what they considered to be CC but is actually something like putting a 5 week old in a cot and closing the door and letting her cry for 3 hours (sadly true).

I do think you're being a bit rude about the cot thing. Some babies do not like being separated from their parents in cots - they sleep better with them. If you want people to be more understanding and less critical about your parenting choices you might want to start being less critical of other people's.

Housework, there are TONS of threads where people tell others to use CC. The 'give a bottle of formula' thing comes up as well sometimes but people generally try to be more supportive of bf. People do get attacked a lot for being 'martyrs' etc because they choose slings and co-sleeping.

Becksharp: Your setting sounds lovely, it really does, but you're assuming the baby settles when being held or close to the parent. That was most definitely not the case for DS. He cried in my arms, for hours, day and night. He just didn't go to sleep, whatever I tried.
At 6 months, I did one night of CC, and that was the end of the nightmare. I'm sure it wouldn't work for everyone, but for us, it did.

I have read a few that people ask for advice re controlled crying, but never seen anyone site it as the "right" thing to do just an option, than is is flamed as being wrong.

My word schroedinger - you really are sure of your facts, aren't you? We most certainly have NOT evolved to crave sugary foods, we crave sugary foods because if we eat refined sugars (which have only existed for the past couple of hundred years) we get a blood sugar dip, which causes us to want to ingest more sugar to 'normalise' it. You are right however that our bodies evolved to eat fats and proteins; it's only relatively recently in terms of evolution that we've eaten much in the way of carbohydrate, let alone sugar itself.

But I digress. You stated ^"Bottom line is: biologically, we are still pretty much cavemen - some people prefer to ignore that as they think it's demeaning in some way. I try to work with that."

I don't think you realise how flawed your logic is. You are saying that cavemen used to carry children all day (in an organic cotton sling?) because crying wasn't good as it alerted predators, and therefore that's what we are evolved to do - ie. as parents we are evolved to respond to a child's cry to prevent predators eating us all. It doesn't necessarily follow that it's bad for the children not to be carried around all day.

I tried sleeping with my babies(I'd have tried standing on my head too if I thought it may work).We all loathed it.Even now if they're ill and I take the dc into bed with us after a couple of hours all 3 creep back to their own bed.We all move a lot at night and hate to feel constricted which is why slings were a nightmare too.

I'll never forget getting a bashing from a poster years ago for not using slings and being a cc child abuser.When I pointed out I had twins and a dodgy neck I was told it was no excuse.I found out said poster who sought to lecture me on the benefits of AP and the crapness of all else put both her dc in nursery at a few weeks old.I was with my 3 dc day in and day out,they were thriving and happy but no I was somehow damaging them whilst her dc were examples of pure contented babydom even though she wasn't even with them.

That was the day I decided to do my own thing and take every "study" with a maseeeeve pinch of salt.

catus I can imagine if you have a really difficult baby, wanting to try anything to change the status quo and if it really only took one night of CC I reckon you'd be hard pushed to say you'd damaged your baby in that time. But I know so many people who make the CC into an event and it is all about putting their needs before their babies - the number of people on this thread who have mentioned the benefit it was to them, before mentioning the benefit it was to their baby says it all.

For the record DS2 was a nightmare, screaming, high-maintenance baby, I do know what it is like.

LeQueen not remembering something is of no relevance to the effect it has whatsoever. All the research says that a baby's emotional well-being and ability to form secure attachments is set by the time they are 30 months old. And no child can remember younger than that age - it actually effects the way the baby's brain is wired.

There is no way I'd have LO in our bed. I have a HUGE fear of squashing him to death. He is almost 5 weeks old and sleeps by himself the majority of the time (has the occasional nap on Dad's chest).

I really hate that you can only be a child-wearing hippy or a cruel cold mother. My LO sleeps in his own cot, I carry him in a sling, I BF during the day and FF at night. He's no angel, but it works for us.

I've got so distracted reading this thread, I've only just remembered to wake my baby up from his scheduled CLB GF routine nap.

runs and hides

Becksharp so we should all sacrifice ourselves on the alter of motherhood martyrdom errr why?Am I supposed to do that the entire 18 years or their whole lives?

Too right I did cc for me as I was on my own miles from anywhere with no family and dp at work.The buck stopped with me and having a weeping sobbing mum too exhausted to drive didn't help my dc one little bit.

I was fab during the terrible 2s,breezed through it,ditto the 3s and pretty much every other stage.I'll suck during the teenage years and no I will be the mother from hell with curfews and refusing to be a taxi service.Hey ho you can't be perfect mummy at every stage and yes you do have to put yourself first at times as errrr the world doesn't revolve round these precious little darlings we give birth to.

I don't understand why its all such an issue. I did what worked for us as a family and I just expect everyone else to do the same. I couldn't give a monkeys what they do (within reason of course) and I don't expect anyone to really care what I do.

FWIW DD1 was easy going and laid back. I put her in her cot and she slept. If she grizzled we'd settle her and she'd sleep, if that didn't work she'd come in with us and then she'd sleep, easy.

I thought because I was doing all the 'right' things I had a happy, confident, content baby who felt secure and happy to sleep.

Ha! How I laugh at my smug self now!

DD2 was a nightmare baby, reflux, colic, clingy, feeding problems, allergies and so on. Basically she was full on from day one, it was intense. We had help from all sorts of HCPs, I read every book I could find. I am a hippy at heart, washable nappies, slings (mei tai, woven, stetchy, ring - I have the lot) so my natural instict wasn't towards CC but nothing else worked with this baby. Nothing. Until we did CC, now she sleeps and we all benefit from this, most of all her as she became a different child once she was getting some sleep at night at last.

My point is this, sometimes CC is the only option left to parents who cannot continue to cope when the shush-pat method, the no-cry sleep solution, the co-sleep solution, basically-any-other-solution hasn't worked and they are desperate.

If I had not had DD2 I would probably still think that parents who CC just don't know the virtues of co-sleeping, breastfeeding, babywearing etc and that they just must not understand how a baby can be nurtured using these methods, to produce a confident, loving, secure and independent child.

But seriously, DD2 just didn't play ball and CC worked. And she slept.

Sooooo all multiple birth babies are damaged ditto those with siblings,those in nurseries.All the above won't have mums rushing to every whimper,thats a whole lot of babies damaged before 30 months Becky.