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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Rochdale grooming trial: Nine found guilty

105 replies

ariadneoliver · 08/05/2012 16:20

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-17989463

Hope they get long sentences.

OP posts:
ohdobuckup · 09/05/2012 19:44

This was going on in Southampton in the late seventies too, perhaps not on such a large scale but I remember seeing some of the girls involved, all pretty damaged and vulnerable, all classically indoctrinated with love-bombing and then aggression.

Also remember young Iranian officer cadets (pre-revolution), intelligent and cultured, expressing utter contempt for English girls. Described them as whores who they were happy to shag, but would never consider marrying them or having any kind of relationship.They were looking forward to marrying 'good clean virgins from their own culture'

I knew quite a few girls who were treated terribly by middle eastern boys/young men after they had been very elaborately courted; seemed nothing we said could dissuade them.

edam · 09/05/2012 21:34

There's a parallel discussion on the feminist board about this. People there are saying very strongly it's about misogyny first and foremost - which is true, fundmentally this is a crime by men against girls. But denying the racial elements of this crime is a mistake. Sadly it appears that the shared racial characteristics of the perpetrators may have been a factor in the authorities not taking the case seriously at first, or at least failing to act. I think it's the Labour MP for Bradford, Anne Cryer who has been trying to raise the issue of street grooming for rape and exploitation for several years now, in the teeth of official indifference?

LittleEsmeWeatherwax · 09/05/2012 22:18

A BBC reporter interviewed someone from Rochdale and that interview was televised about 2 minutes.

"It takes two to tango"

I could scream, and get very very violent.

JosephineCD · 09/05/2012 22:52

The BBC are so biased it's beyond belief. They are nearly as bad as the Guardian.

grimbletart · 09/05/2012 23:17

Also remember young Iranian officer cadets (pre-revolution), intelligent and cultured, expressing utter contempt for English girls. Described them as whores who they were happy to shag, but would never consider marrying them or having any kind of relationship.They were looking forward to marrying 'good clean virgins from their own culture'

Odd isn't it how the debate centres on sexism, racism, culture, misogyny etc. yet no attention at all is paid to one of the most outrageous aspects - the double standard that operates.

What are these men if they are not male sluts, slags and whores? What "clean virgin" would want to marry one of these filthy creatures?

HotheadPaisan · 10/05/2012 00:46

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HotheadPaisan · 10/05/2012 00:58

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HotheadPaisan · 10/05/2012 00:58

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JustineMumsnet · 10/05/2012 09:31

Good piece by David Aaronovitch on this today (if you can get past paywall).

edam · 10/05/2012 13:55

Thanks Justine but sadly not re. paywall.

Nancy66 · 10/05/2012 15:02

Just read a victim's story today.
She was 13 when she was raped by these men - sometimes up to 20 in a week.
Sometimes the men would pay her.
She confided in her dad but, as he was a heroin addict and took the money the men gave her to buy drugs, he did nothing and encouraged her to keep meeting the men.

God some people have shit lives. Just horrible.

edam · 10/05/2012 22:04

Nancy, that's sickening - the poor girl.

TwoIfBySea · 10/05/2012 23:03

Anyone watching BBC Question Time, first few minutes it turns out that these young girls lured the men. It wasn't their sick fault at all, it was all down to the young, vulnerable girls tempting the poor, misogynistic men.

Unbelievable.

They're tying themselves in knots to avoid the race issue. Wonder what would happen if it had been nine white men raping Asian girls?

HotheadPaisan · 10/05/2012 23:06

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DonInKillerHeels · 10/05/2012 23:08

"Frances, I have no legal training, but I believe the 59yo is some kind of religious figurehead in the local community"

I'm sorry but that cannot possibly be the reason; there are no legal grounds for protecting someone's identity for this reason and saying so makes you sound a bit BNP-ish, frankly

HotheadPaisan · 10/05/2012 23:11

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giveitago · 11/05/2012 12:38

This is such a high profile case and it involves asian men in a gang on at this time. This might be why the race issue is coming to the fore. If they were able to prosecute all men involved in this criminal activity we'd see that it's across the board.

However, I do agree that there is a sense in some parts of some communities that white or 'English' are not pure like their own community girls.

I had a place at a uni in N. england back in the '80s and I went to visit but saw very clearly in the 4 hours I was there the racial divisions and tensions.

I'd never seen that before and I'm of european and asian origin and I felt very uncomfortable. I rejected the uni offer based on the fact I didn't envisage myself living in that environment.

There is quite a bit of ignorance in our society that needs to be tackled but we also need to tackle how young poeple are let down by the authorities that are meant to protect them.

3littlefrogs · 11/05/2012 14:51

Racial tension and non - integration in some Northern towns is really very worrying. It is sad, because the grandparents of the current younger generation were very keen to mix and integrate with local communities, and to conform to local laws and customs. That has all changed now.

My nephew (who is white) was firmly and rudely put in his place when he attempted to introduce himself to his new classmates when he started secondary school. He was told to "F--k off to his own end of the playground and stay with your own kind".

As I said earlier in the thread - this has been going on for years. Those men did not consider the girls to be human beings.

My children are mixed race - one reason why I wouldn't contemplate moving back up North.

All this effort by those in authority to avoid mentioning the race issue has resulted in this sort of thing going on unchecked.

In parts of London there is awful child abuse and murder going on in certain cultural and religious groups. It has been allowed to go on far too long, for fear of causing offence to these groups.

In the UK the same law should apply to every abuser no matter to what religious, cultural or ethnic group they belong. It shouldn't make any difference whether they are catholic priests, western tourists on paedophilia tours to the far east, Eastern Europeans trafficking girls for prostitution, or African so-called Christians killing and torturing children they believe to be witches. If the perpetrators are offended, that is tough.

figroll · 11/05/2012 21:25

I watched newsnight last night and couldn't believe how the issues were skirted around. Why are we all so frightened? It is this sort of silliness that drives people into the arms of the BNP because they feel that no one is listening to their concerns. As for the vicar - what the hell? Are we supposed to feel sorry for the men for being led astray by a bunch of 13 year old highly sexed girls in short skirts?

Unbelievable!

ethelb · 11/05/2012 21:54

Watching qt now. They will actually sit there accusing young women of bringing it in themselves rather than talk about race. The audience (in Oldham) are talking sense for once.
It is unbelievable.

ethelb · 11/05/2012 21:58

Does anyone have the vicar's address or name so I can look it up? I need to write to the man. He seems to have been led astray.

edam · 12/05/2012 00:37

He said he was from Heywood, or from very near Heywood, I think?

poptheweasel · 12/05/2012 15:03

Ever see/read The girl with the dragon tattoo?
Security services asset abuses girl and it's covered up for years.
The Security services have been actively recruiting assets in the muslim community for a decade. Well placed assets will receive help, including sorting out any local difficulties with the police.
One wonders if the unnamed one was working for our dear security services. They are not the paragons of morality they often claim to be...

People who risk prosecution for offences will often be targeted by the police as informants. The police knew about this years ago.

The race card is being played very strongly in this. However one only has to do cursory research to reveal Mohammed's attitudes to slavery and girls under our current age of consent. Men who take Mohammed for a role model would, in our society be bound come into conflict with the law. Enslaving women, having a dozen 'wives', consummating 'marriages' with girls under the age of 13 are not exactly post-enlightenment human-rights based cultural norms.

If a man had these tenancies, it would be very easy to find a religious excuse for his behaviour...

ariadneoliver · 13/05/2012 18:51

Nine more men arrested in Rochdale.

www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/may/13/police-child-grooming-rochdale-investigation?newsfeed=true

OP posts:
mydoorisalwaysopen · 16/05/2012 22:09

I am certain that there are very many young women and girls of pakistani background who are being sexually abused but I wouldn't expect a crime like that to come to court very often. The men who commit these crimes think all women are worthless.