Rochdale grooming trial: Nine found guilty

[ariadneoliver]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-17989463

Hope they get long sentences.

Sorry Aye sadly they will probably be celebrated in their community for being 'unfairly targeted' by the big bad British Police. Now they and their friends are invincible. Any more investigations or arrests and it's 'racist' they can now literally get away with murder. Please please realise realise this is (along with the reluctance to talk) what the PC brigade has enabled. This is not what a lot of their community believe but this is what it's come to. Any one of you that doesn't have a fucking clue come and live in this sort of area for even a few months.

Sorry I meant to say that they can even sue and make money out of being 'persecuted'. You pay tax to give a windfall to paedo rapists. Thank Mr Blair and his wife for this.

Why is no one mentioning the fact that the majority of these crimes (not just this one) are carried out by Pakistani men?

Because people are scared of being called racist, Callisto.

There is definitely a cultural/racial element at play though - when I was at FE college 20 years ago in Manchester, caucasian girls were routinely verbally abused by the large gangs of asian lads who used to hang out in the canteen. "White slag" was a favourite insult. Where did they learn that, I wonder?

Horrifying that these young girls could be so let down by a society so cowardly that no one will acknowledge what has been going on for a very long time for fear of being called racist.

The authorities should be utterly ashamed. Sexual offenders come in all colours and creeds, all should be punished and to turn a blind eye for decades as they have done just served these girls up on a plate. The worse thing is these communities will have people who have gotten away with it for so long...what about women in their families? Or is that different?

I think it is time people stopped pussy-footing around and dealt with the issues at hand before the most vulnerable are made to pay for our ignorance.

Horrifying that these young girls could be so let down by a society so cowardly that no one will acknowledge what has been going on for a very long time for fear of being called racist.

The authorities should be utterly ashamed. Sexual offenders come in all colours and creeds, all should be punished and to turn a blind eye for decades as they have done just served these girls up on a plate. The worse thing is these communities will have people who have gotten away with it for so long...what about women in their families? Or is that different?

I think it is time people stopped pussy-footing around and dealt with the issues at hand before the most vulnerable are made to pay for our ignorance.

The likeliest reason for one of the guilty not being named is that there are other charges against him for which the authorities are seeking a conviction, and naming him as one of these creatures may prejudice a fair trial. It was the same for the delayed naming in the Baby Peter case, and a further convictions did result then.

It's like the elephant in the room isn't it? There was a politician on R4 this morning talking about this case in particular, and these kind of abuses in general, and he tied himself in knots in his attempt to excuse the Pakistani element of it. His argument was that because the BNP was protesting outside the court, it couldn't possibly a racist attack on these young girls. Very bizarre, and it seems obvious to me that it is a kind of racist attack. Why else would these men only target white English girls? There was also another man on, possibly representing Barnados (sorry about lack of proper synopsis - I was listening in the middle of getting DD ready for school) who said that people within Barnardos had been talking about the Pakistani element of these crimes for years, but not daring to come out and say it.

We do need to stop being so lily-livered about stuff like this or it will continue to happen.

Unfortunately it takes a long time to change and challenge racist assumptions and behaviour, and I think it's even harder when the perpetrators of racism are historically themselves a persecuted minority.

It used to drive me mad at college though - there was no way any of the caucasian students would have used racist language in relation to any of our non-white peers, but these asian lads were blatant and totally got away with it.

I raised it with one of my tutors as a women's rights issue, but he ummed and ahed about it. This was the tail-end of the PC 'eighties. Nothing was done to address the problem because apparently the asian boys' "oppression" trumped female students' right to go to the canteen without being called a slag

It seems the authorities are terrified of being viewed as racist, however, have absolutely no problem in being sexist fuckers. These girls have been badly let down and it really illustrates that women are seen as second class citizens by the establishment in this country.

Just heard Keith Vaz on Today discussing this and being in total denial about the reality that in northern british cities and towns the street grooming of girls is disproportionatly done by Asian men and the majority of victims are white girls. His stance is it's the BNP making it out to be Asian men abusing white girls rather than accept the figues which show this crime is disproprtinately being committed by Asian men. Until those in positions ie police, social services, child protection stop being in denial this sort of thing will continue as these men will think no one will stop them.This has being going on for decades, I went to school in a northern city 20 years ago and knew of girls from chaotic backgrounds skipping classes to meet up with there much older and often married Asian boyfriends and often they'd be asked to bring a friend along for their mates. They'd be plied with alcohol and inevitably end up having sex some got pregnant. Is this a racist problem ? I think so and I speak as some one who is British but not white. There will always be people from every race who will think people of other races are inferior to them and will not flinch from abusing those who are not the same race as them. I also don't agree with the opinion of some such as Lee Jasper who say black people can't be racist I've had racist abuse during my lifetime from people who are white, black and other ethnicities. People like Keith Vaz who automatically blame the BNP do a lot of harm as it stops people discussing this publically in case they are seen as racist. This means in reality it doesn't get discussed rationally and openly so the abuse continues and the issue goes underground fuelling the support for extremist groups such as the BNP.

Exactly, Mumzy. I'm not sure what the answer is though, when everyone is so quick to scream 'racist' about anyone willing to discuss the issue, and for politicians it would be political suicide.

Mohammed Shafiq from the Ramadhan Foundation has been brave enough to put his head over the parapet on this latest case:

From the Manchester Evening News

Mr Shafiq, who was born and raised in Rochdale, insisted the case was about race. He said: "There is a significant problem for the British Pakistani community. There is an over representation amongst recent convictions in the crime of on-street grooming. There should be no silence in addressing the issue of race as this is central to the actions of these criminals.

"They think that white teenage girls are worthless and can be abused without a second thought. It is this sort of behaviour that is bringing shame on our community. I urge the police and the councils not to be frightened to address this issue. There is a strong lesson (to be learned) that you can't ignore race or be over sensitive."

you have to remember that these girls are easy to get to. Asian girls are locked away although 'honour killings' are still going on within their community. The white girls are wandering the streets and easier to get at. If it was Eastern Europe it would be poor Rumanian/Albanian/Hungarian girls who would be trafficked and in the Far East it would be Phillipinos/Thai etc.

Ottorose I agree that Mohammed Shafiq deserves credit, as does Nazir Afzal, who reopened the case after he was made Chief Crown Prosecutor in the North West, and Ann Cryer who has been raising this issue for years. As for Keith Vaz MP, I despair....

I just posted on the other thread about this; IMO there is a clear racial element here. There is a view that white girls from council estates are 'slags' and 'easy meat' etc. I wonder if these men would be equally happy trafficking and raping Asian children?

Disclaimer - I am half Asian.

I agree it's a tough one to tackle as the problems in this case include paedophilia, racism and misogyny but to deny as Keith Vaz has done that this is a particular problem in some Asian men is to brush the promblem under the carpet and do nothing.

Just posted on the thread in Womens Rights to the same effect Mumzy, but on that thread the opinion is that the racist element either doesn't exist or is a red herring.

Pedallleur - would be traffiked or are being traffiked do you think? Hideously depressing isn't it.

This is an issue that needs to be faced head on because it isn't going to go away. Just Google Operation Bullfinch www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/yourtown/oxford/9667509.New_charges_in_child_sex_inquiry/

I'm 39 and back when I was 13 or 14 schoolmates were being offered free fags and booze in exchange for blow jobs. My friends realised it wasn't right and didn't get involved too deep but there was some very young girls who were in and out of care homes who regularly hung around the takeaway. This was in an area where you would think that this was very unlikely to happen. I wonder how many girls across the country have been exploited in this way over the years? I dread to think.

A couple of years ago I watched a programme which interviewed a middle class professional family whose 12 year old daughter had been groomed by older Asian men. Apparently she use to hang out with friends at the local shopping centre on Saturdays had become friendly with some older girls who introduce them to some Asian boys who in turn passed her and her friends to much older men. When the parents found out what was happening they involved the police and social services who apparently were relunctant to get involved due to the race issue. The parents then tried to ground her but got death threats and had their house sprayed with the words "slag" by the men grooming her. Eventually I think they had to move in order to escape the situation. So it shows it can happen to anyone and not just those from chaotic homes hence why it's important we tackle this problem now rather than letting it continue because we risk offending a community.

I think the race issue is a real problem. The area I grew up in was very white, the men I refer to were Asian. I didn't mention the ethnic background in my previous post because It feels racist to make reference to their ethnicity. If people feel uncomfortable discussing this as a race issue it's not surprising that it has been brushed under the carpet.

I believe the 59yo is some kind of religious figurehead in the local community That is absolutely not a reason he would not be named. Most likely, as someone else suggested, he is facing another trial.

Lord Ali has also spoken out very bravely about this being a crime disproprtionately featuring Pakistani Muslim men and soemthing that needs to be tackled by that community.

Eldritch I agree - he is probably facing another trial.

It's something I can't say in RL but when I was at Manchester Uni 4 years ago white girls, including myself, frequently got hurled abuse by asian men. In the street, in shops etc. Groups and individuals. I got bottles flung at me once while they drove past hurling abuse on a main road (plastic, I wasn't hurt).

Asian friends of mine told me why it was, and were quite blunt about the fact that they considered all white girls slags and sexually available and that they had the right to be abusive becuase of it. But only once or twice white friends of mine discussed it.

We didn't want to because the second we mentioned it it brought out every white racist in the room. It was just horrible.