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Saadia,Monkeytrousers and Peacedove...looking forward greatly to your comments on Abu Hamza's conviction.o

398 replies

moondog · 07/02/2006 23:17

OP posts:
nanneh · 09/02/2006 13:37

Marina - I wasn't aware of those threads. I will read them with interest, thanks !

nanneh · 09/02/2006 13:38

Caligula - fair enough ! I guess with disagree on that one !

Marina · 09/02/2006 13:42

Well you do seem to suspect that there is a lack of wider interest in these issues nanneh
Remember a lot of absentees from this whole argument (over several threads) could well hold the view that Abu Hamza and Anjem Choudhary etc are not representative of the moderate Muslim community in Britain. They just don't have the brain wattage at present to add anything new to the debate.

Greensleeves · 09/02/2006 13:56

Perhaps many people who could and would have contributed usefully to a debate on this topic have refrained from doing so, because the last debate of this nature deteriorated into a disgraceful debacle, and led to the loss of a highly valued MNer. Just a thought

ruty · 09/02/2006 14:00

thanks PD

Rhubarb · 09/02/2006 14:03

Just face it will you? Us catholics are far superior than any other religion on earth so there! The only reason these terrorists are chucking so many bombs around and stuff is because they cannot stand to be proven wrong so they're having a tant! (note to self - provide links to Abu whatsisname and Bin Ladenfullofshit to Mumsnet, behavioural problems, Toddler Tantrums)

PD, I gave you the children of priests, not nuns! And yes Roy Hattersley does prove my point! You see, what other religion in the world has sacred sperm huh? And when you see all these holy horror movies like The Exorcist (real priest in that btm!) and Constantine which church are they portraying? The proddys? Nooooo, it's us catholics! Everyone wants to be one of us, they just don't like admitting it!

Now that I've won this particular argument, don't you all have houses to hoover or something?

peacedove · 09/02/2006 14:18

Rhubarb don't the nun's eggs carry mutated genes?

You admitted mutation from your mum

now who wins this argument?

Rhubarb · 09/02/2006 14:37

Yes of course they carry mutated genes too! But I only gave you the children from priests, not nuns! Don't get greedy! That's it with you Muslims you see, you give them a little and before you know it they're back for the whole bloody thing!

I win! I'm a catholic, we always win!

Heathcliffscathy · 09/02/2006 14:57

actually, blu, in answer to your weary post further down, I agree 'what is this about?' and i also think that the 'climate of fear' that you refer to caligula is fed far more by the barrage of 'they're coming to get us' nonsense on some of these threads then by a few hundred nutters protesting. also you're bright enough to realise that the people best served by creating a climate of fear are our dear leader and the one across the pond gwb...then they get to pass all their lovely id card legislation and ride roughshod over human rights and the law.

i've been trying to say that all along.

nanneh · 09/02/2006 15:08

Greensleeves. I seem to remember a poster calling Muhammed a "kiddy-fiddler". I would have thought that as a Muslim, peacedove would find that highly offensive. But he is still here isn't he ?

Peacedove - I do not consider you a representative of Muslims (and I am sure you have said that yourself too), certainly none of my Muslim friends hold your views. However, I respect the fact that you have decided to stay on this website.

Greensleeves · 09/02/2006 15:14

Nanneh. Dogs and bones leap to mind I merely point out that the level of acrimony in that debate may have deterred some posters from participating. Some people enjoy conflict more than others.

Greensleeves · 09/02/2006 15:17

... and a fairer analogy would have been somebody calling peacedove himself a "kiddy-fiddler" and then his responses bring deleted, with the original mark left intact.

nanneh · 09/02/2006 15:33

greensleeves -

There is a difference between calling an individual a particular name and calling Muhammed (prophet to 1 billion people around the world) a particular name. The individual being called a name is one person who may or may not be offended, but calling Muhammed or Jesus or Moses a paedophile, etc. is very likley to be offensive to several million people.

Fascism is a particular form of political ideology. Fascists also tend to be racists as they idealise one race above all others. Both terms can be used as insults, but they can also be used to categorise a person's political beliefs.

Rhubarb · 09/02/2006 15:38

Ah but nanneh, the difference is that Jesus probably has been called that at some time, but we practise forgiveness - is there a word for that in your Holy Book somewhere?

What did Jesus say when he was being crucified? Oh yes! "forgive them for they know not what they do", not "right lads, cut off their heads!"

Greensleeves · 09/02/2006 15:40

I am not going to get drawn into a facile low-level debate with somebody whose mind could only be changed with the aid of an electric tin-opener, a crow-bar and a team of transplant surgeons.

I am making the point - and I gladly reiterate it - that reasonable, educated people, with real ideas to contribute, do not generally choose to spend their time engaging in the kind of McCarthyite thought-routing that passes for debate in certain quarters. Thus these discussions are limited from the outset in what they can achieve.

peacedove · 09/02/2006 16:57

one set of rules for the children of priests, and another for those of nuns! Rhubarb

can't have that. It will cause a major fault in the freedoms won by the fair sex in Europe, and the "equality of genders" laws, and what's more, it will annoy most MNers.

sorry, but you will have to come with us.

Blandmum · 09/02/2006 17:09

Well, re the genders bit, a male foetus will develop as female, unless they get testosterone in the womb, at three specific stages in development.

So you are all 'failed' women PD

Roy Hattersly is a stunning indightment of the unsuitability of priestly sperm IMHO

peacedove · 09/02/2006 17:11

hey, and what about the genes?

Blandmum · 09/02/2006 17:14

That person would be genotypicaly male, and have an X and Y chromosome, but would be phenotypicaly female, would have the external genitals of a girl.

The testoterone is made by the foetus, and the information to make it is on the Y chromosome.

(teaching this tomorrow1)

peacedove · 09/02/2006 17:17

thanks for the lesson MB.

Blandmum · 09/02/2006 17:18

Facinating stuff!

I have a great day tomorrow, how proteins are made first, reproduction, then how muscle contraction works. A whole day of biology. Wonderful

peacedove · 09/02/2006 17:23

yes, Bio is beginning to be fascinating. Do you teach bio only, or general Science?

Blandmum · 09/02/2006 17:26

Everything for years 7, 8 and 9. Mostly biology in 10 and 11 (sometimes physics). Biology and human biology in the sixth form. I love all of it but I am most at 'home' with biology. My degree is in Biochemistry but i am a physiologist/ neurophysiologist at heart.

I love my job, I can't imagine doing anything better, well most days anyway

Blandmum · 09/02/2006 17:26

If you don't mind me asking, what do you do? Not have to answer btw, I'm just being nosey

Caligula · 09/02/2006 17:54

Sophable, the climate of fear is created by the fact that among other things, last year, a Dutch film-maker was murdered. When cartoonists then get threatened, are you serious that we shouldn't take that threat seriously? And how many other cartoonists, columnists etc., don't dare to publish something they want in case they too receive death threats? If that becomes the norm (and maybe it's too late, maybe it already is the norm) there's an awful lot of material, some of it offensive, some of it thought-provoking, some of it merely informative, most of it perhaps dull and unreadable, that won't be published. You may say thank goodness for that in some cases, but I'd rather things weren't published because they're not judged good enough quality or not in keeping with the paper's ethos or whatever, rather than because "we'd better not because we might get shot."

Talking of the paedophile allegation, I wasn't aware that one of Mohammed's wives was six years old. Is this true or a slander? That's a genuine question, not a provocation for all you sensitive types.

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