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Rapists jailed for just 40 months after judge says 11-year-old victim was 'willing'

217 replies

KRITIQ · 22/02/2012 14:46

story here.

"Judge David Farrell QC jailed them both for just 40 months each as he accepted the claim that she was willing and looked "at least" 14."

Funny, but I thought 14 was still under the age of consent for sex with a 21 year old man, quite apart from the fact that how a girl or woman "looks" should NEVER be a justification for rape, full stop.

I despair.

OP posts:
LadySybilDeChocolate · 22/02/2012 14:47

Shock That's disgusting! Poor child. What message does this send out?

weblette · 22/02/2012 14:49

Absolutely appalling, reports I read said the sentences were already being referred back for being far too lenient and inappropriate.

IAmBooyhoo · 22/02/2012 14:51

fucking hell!!

did i read that right or did that judge not say the girls needed protected from themselves?? Shock

he needs sacked.

GeekCool · 22/02/2012 15:19

Despite her age it is accepted that she was a willing participant, but the law is there to protect young girls from this type of behaviour and to protect them from themselves.

Apparently the law is not there to protect young girls at all. Thank goodness the CPS are pressing for longer sentencing

MrsClown · 22/02/2012 15:27

OMG - it makes me puke.

KRITIQ · 22/02/2012 15:51

There is just SO much wrong in this story.

If an 11 year old child behaves in a sexually disinhibited way (which the judge suggests by saying she was a "willing participant,") you know what? You can pretty well guarantee she has been sexually abused in the past or is still being abused by someone.

Even if she "looked" 14 (whatever the Hell that means!), that's still below the age of consent so why in the world did two 21 year old men believe they were entitled to have sex with a child even of that age? Even if she "appeared" more mature than she was, that didn't mean that emotionally, intellectually or psychologically she was anything but an 11 year old child.

Guidelines in the Sexual Offences Act 2003 suggest between a 10 and 13 year sentence for the rape of a child under 13. The judge deliberately ignored the guidance when sentencing the men to only 3 years and 4 months each (with the likelihood they'd serve no more than half of that.)

The latest reports say the CPS are considering an appeal against the lenient sentence, but it hasn't happened yet and there is no guarantee that the sentences will change even if an appeal is lodged.

The judge (as often happens) chose to state his belief that the child was culpable for her own assault as justification for the short sentences.

Yes, it's not just about the suffering of this particular child (and we can only hope she is getting support to deal with the shit she's suffered.) It is very much the message this sends out to children (that it doesn't matter if they are raped, don't expect the rapist will be severely punished and you'll probably be held to blame as well,) and to men (if you want to shag a child, don't worry, you'll probably get away with it but if caught, don't be put off by all that 10 to 13 years business - you'll be out within a couple of years, no probs.)

OP posts:
minimathsmouse · 23/02/2012 10:40

"Guidelines in the Sexual Offences Act 2003 suggest between a 10 and 13 year sentence for the rape of a child under 13. The judge deliberately ignored the guidance when sentencing the men to only 3 years and 4 months each (with the likelihood they'd serve no more than half of that.)"

Quite frankly if most of us in our work ignored company policy, we would receive a warning and be held accountable for our actions.

In my mind it isn't enough for the CPS to over turn the sentence, they also need to be able to make these judges fully accountable.

It makes you wonder where his sympathies lie & I wouldn't trust that judge anywhere near children.

Rindercella · 23/02/2012 10:42

"Any man that thinks it is acceptable to have group rape with an 11-year-old - or even a 14-year-old - and film it deserves a much longer sentence". Yep. Shocking crime and very, very shocking sentences.

TonyN · 23/02/2012 12:58

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by Mumsnet.

InmaculadaConcepcion · 23/02/2012 14:17

Jeez.
Makes me want to throw up my hands in despair.

sakura · 24/02/2012 12:48

judges do this all the time. Bunch of paedophiles.

If there's one thing men are good at it's PR, managing to convince women that the courts are there to protect "people" the way they have, when really the system is there to protect men's right to rape. I'm only going by hard facts such as the rape conviction statistics.

BasilRathbone · 24/02/2012 13:23

Well, this judge certainly does seem to be the child-rapist's friend.

BasilRathbone · 24/02/2012 13:25

"the law is there to protect young girls from this type of behaviour and to protect them from themselves"

Yes, because if the law didn't do that, young girls would rape themselves, wouldn't they?

Oh, wait...

Dworkin · 24/02/2012 13:27

It's so obvious that the judge has done wrong in this case, so obvious, that I'm wondering why there isn't such a hue and cry about it.

When I think of all the media exposure that Assange and Dominic S-K get.

Heyyyho · 24/02/2012 13:29

Oh My God :(

BasilRathbone · 24/02/2012 13:29

Yes but they're real people Dworkin.

Whereas 11 year old girls aren't, really. They're just girls. Judges can't be expected to identify with them

KRITIQ · 24/02/2012 16:41

Castration, uh no. That's just revenge. What would the point of that be?

A fair and appropriate sentence for the crime, following agreed legal guidelines? Yes, that's what should have happened. That is what should happen in every case of sexual violence, but sadly it doesn't seem to be the case.

OP posts:
Thistledew · 24/02/2012 16:54

I generally think that the UK's legal system is something that we (as a country) should be proud of, and that although not flawless, most of the time it works well, but when I compare what I see and hear about how it treats women girls with how men are treated (or how women are treated when there isn't a gendered issue at stake) I am shocked by how in-your-face the sexism and misogyny is. There is a real and shocking ignorance amongst the judiciary about domestic violence and rape, and I have seen too many examples to believe it is coincidental or an aberration amongst a minority.

tralalala · 24/02/2012 17:01

I'm going to write to my MP about this I can't quite belive that the judge can get away with that sort of wording and not be pulled up on it.

HandDivedScallopsrgreat · 24/02/2012 18:33

I've written about 3 replies to this and deleted.them all. There is so much wrong with this I don't know where to start. On what twisted planet should it matter whether an 11 yr old looks like a 14 yr old when it comes to rape.

Nyac · 24/02/2012 18:45

Even rapists of 11 year olds use the "she consented" defense. :(

KRITIQ · 24/02/2012 20:44

I'm not easily shocked, but I was shocked first that the brief thought arguing that an 11 year old looked 14 (still well below the age of consent) somehow made it a bit more okay, and the judge agreed.

There have been a few recent cases both in the US and the UK where the victims were 12 and the courts accepted their "more mature appearance and behaviour" as mitigation in sentencing. Now it's dropped another year.

If 14 is the new 16 and 11 is the new 14, in terms of justifying sexual abuse of children, I mean how much lower can it go? What next? "Your Honour, I was convinced her age was at least in double figures, so I thought it would be okay?"

(feeling more than a trifle sick just now.)

OP posts:
HandDivedScallopsrgreat · 24/02/2012 20:54

Me too (feeling sick). I have a whole issue with the word "willing" too. Not sure if I can articulate this well, but the word to me is often said by people who have behaved badly towards the "willing" party. In this respect it has the added bonus of being said from such an entitled male perspective.

swallowedAfly · 24/02/2012 22:43

it makes me utterly sick. an 11 year old cannot consent. nor can a 14yo. what the hell is the point of a law that no one actually enforces and stands by in a court of law?

she looked 14 - unbelievable! wtf that has to do with anything i don't know but the judge is clearly telling us that in his mind sex with a 14yo is ok. and willing? what kind of will does an 11 year old have? an 11 yo might be willing to do all sorts of things ffs but they don't have that decision making power, they're a child, we kind of acknowledge that children are not the best deciders hence them not voting, not being able to give medical consent, being under the care of their parents, teachers etc and that funny old law about not having sex with minors is there because of these principles too.

i'm so sick of it.

swallowedAfly · 24/02/2012 22:46

and yy to the fact an 11yo is willing to have sex with adult men being a huge bloody red flag in itself Sad

it's this stuff that makes me feel like an enemy or an official target or something you know? it doesn't get more blatant than this.

and do we believe he'd have felt the same if it was an 11yo boy in this case? would his 'willingness' and looking 14 have been considered relevant?

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