Term-time holidays to be banned, with fines.....

[LilyBolero]

Discuss

In France there is a massive political drive to get children to learn English foreign languages, with huge amounts of money being wasted invested on English lessons from the first year of primary. No matter than there is no curriculum or that the people who teach English are usually either non-English speaking teachers or non-teaching qualified Anglophones.

However, if French parents arrange for their offspring to attend an English boarding school for the last few weeks of the summer term (missing perhaps 10 days of school before the arrêt des notes), schools are not allowed to officially approve.

Madness.

Can home-Ed's go on hols whenever they like? On the basis that trips are educational? If so then surely my week self-catering in Spain in term-time with DS2 and 3 isalso educational? They are doing spanish, and will have a lot more exposure to the language than in 2 hours a week in school. Also exposure in culture, geography, sports, life skills.
My dses are in secondary ed but not exam years.

Who says anything about pick and mixing rules.

Taking kids out for a week once in a year isn't pick and mixing rules,if you go by that stance sorry all ski-ing trips and a lot of other trips that remove some kids(the ones who can afford it) should be banned.

The fact is a lot of heads also don't actually mind.Ours certainly doesn't,we have good attendance,committed parents who tirelessly help out and support the school in everything they ask wether it be homework,uniform,helping out etc.Several have taken their kids out for a weeks ski-ing this term who otherwise couldn't if it was holiday only.I don't begrudge them one little bit,what an amazing experience.Ski-ing shouldn't be a sport for just the rich,the more kids that can experience amazing experiences the better.

How can it be that the gov let schools take kids on school ski-ing trips but parents can't take the same kids ski-ing themselves?Total madness!

Private schools students can still take advantage of cheaper, out of season holidays because they have shorter terms. So I can't imagine any conservatives will object (not that the ruling would affect them anyway).

Huh? So all conservatives can afford/want to pay school fees? No liberal/labour voters ever choose independent education? What about all the people who buy the Sun and the Mail? - notoriously conservative papers aimed at lower socioeconomic groups.
That statement makes no sense at all. It isn't even accurate as the price hike in holidays often (usually?) coincides with the start of private school holidays, not the start of state school holidays.

I work in a private school and I think the government would keel over in horror at our attendence figures.

• Despite our longer holidays several parents have taken their children out for the last week or so of term or returned a week or so late.
• We have Saturday school and Saturday attendence is lower than any other day for reasons ranging from grumpiness about getting out of bed on a Saturday (!) to sporting/dramatic commitments.
• Our children are granted authorised absence without argument for weddings, funerals, parties, religious reasons, sports, music, drama, doctor, dentist etc
• We have many overseas boarders who never seem to get their flights right and are always a couple of days out either side (I presume it's about getting cheap flights)
• We have many forces children who need to be with their parent when they are on leave. For boarders in particular that often requires a week or two off.

We still get fantastic results at CE and several children into top public schools and state grammars every year. I really don't think being at school all day every day is the only, or even the best, way to get an education and I am very glad that we won't have to bow to this bullying.

Having said that, I think that term time holidays should have a good reason behind them (even if it is as simple as it being the only affordable way).

There is a problem at some schools which is mainly people taking their children out of school to visit family in Pakistan. In fact one classmate is away at the moment, due back in May. Others have started back at school six months late due to being abroad.

I guess if you have a large family celebration to attend and are spending thousands flyi g family over there then it makes sense to stay for a while seeing family etc - but it's a headache for the teachers and affects the child's education even at primary level.

I don't know how a fine system would have effect in that situation either - hitting families with an enormous bill will not help anyone.

It's funny how my trips to Pakistan every 2 years for 8 weeks (my dad was allowed to accumulate his holidays for 2 years) didn't affect my education.
I passed the 11 plus, got into grammar school, got great GCSE's, A levels, degree, Professional exams.
All my siblings are in professional careers doing very well thank you very much

IME private school holidays are still affected by most travel companies. Travel companies are not daft - they have cottoned onto all school holidays. \prices go up a week or so before state school holidays ime - to cover the private school ones. I know - we have looked before!

"what are they going to do chuck your kids out" Dd's Belgian state school would do exactly that. One day you are allowed without a doctor;s note.

Jaja - I was thinking in terms of how much my DDs have covered in the last few months and how hard it would be to catch up - but perhaps there is an arrangement with the school for curriculum to be covered while away.

My headteacher husband totally agrees with MrsHeffley's view of the value of family holidays. He deals with very many disadvantaged children whose parents, for all sorts of reasons, do not provide a happy and stimulating family life. If they can manage to take the children away with some semblance of "normal" family activity he is all for it.
He also points out that any fines have to be imposed by the magistrates' courts not directly by the LEA or the school. Magistrates will not accept evidence from anyone other than the actual head, i.e. not a deputy or head of year. He reckons he has better ways of spending his time than hanging around the magistrates' courts.
Our own grandchildren were taken out of school this term for a week's skiing. It was their first trip, they are 6 and 8. In ski school from 9.15 to 4.45, and lunch with french children, as our OFSTED inspector friend, (part of the group) pointed out, this can go down in the school records as"Education Off-Site" and not affect attendance statistics. Hard to believe, for children of this age, that it was a less valuable experience than a normal week's school.

"Our own grandchildren were taken out of school this term for a week's skiing. It was their first trip, they are 6 and 8. In ski school from 9.15 to 4.45, and lunch with french children, as our OFSTED inspector friend, (part of the group) pointed out, this can go down in the school records as"Education Off-Site" and not affect attendance statistics. Hard to believe, for children of this age, that it was a less valuable experience than a normal week's school."

Wow! Did you see my earlier post about language trips in France? If only the French were more enlightened about the concept of "Education Off Site."

Thinks - must investigate rules here and see what they really are. If UK heads don't always know the rules, there is no reason why French heads should be any more clued up.

Bonsoir, yes I agree, the French system seems mad and the precise rules well worth investigating. Good luck.

Education is important but quality family time is important too.

The State should be supportive of families spending quality time together on holiday and should enable this as much as possible. If it does nothing about making holidays affordable during school holidays then it should be supportive of parents taking children out of school.

I believe strongly in the value of family holidays for children and I cannot believe that one or two weeks out of school per year will cause irreparable damage to a child's education. My db took his primary school age kids out of school for 6 months a couple of years ago and they are both now ahead of their age in all subjects.

Well,I'm booking a day to take my dds to the theatre.I might as well do it now while I can.

This thread came to mind when watching MBFGW on Channel 4 the other day. If it's to be believed - and I think I believe it - the majority of travellers' children don't attend school AT ALL past the age of 11 or so, or, at best pop in when they feel like it - say, a few days a month. Now, I don't know for sure, what, if anything, the authorities are doing about this, but, for example, one child was shown receiving one hour a week's home tutoring (as opposed to home education as most people understand it) with a local authority tutor, and viewers were told that this risible time meant her parents weren't prosecuted (or words to that effect).

Meanwhile, if your child attends school day in day out for years, and, one year you have the temerity to take them out in term time for a week for an otherwise unaffordable and rare family holiday, you will be castigated and fined.

Talk about double bloody standards. The vast majority of people taking term time out are NOT truanting, yet have been thrown into the same category (by some) as parents who don't give a damn, don't see their kids into school, don't care if their kids are roaming the streets etc. They value their children's education, but they also value decent time spent together as a family - and that's becoming an increasingly rare commodity for many families, with both parents working long hours and/or opposite shifts to make ends meet (notwithstanding the extra restrictions on leave faced by those in particular jobs with little or no flexibility). I really do wonder what's really behind this plan ? ...... dressing it up as concern for children's education is, I feel, completely disingenuous as the majority of the children concerned achieve as they should do. I personally feel it's yet another money making scheme, and can't shake the feeling that there's some sort of underlying snobbery involved - how very dare the hoi polloi want a holiday ........

We run a small business. If our staff with children all took their summer holiday in the school holidays the business would be bust. A combination of being unable to bill for time for hours worked (as very few people would be working), and clients leaving us as many of them need us to do extra work in the school holidays, when things are quieter for them, would make it completely unsustainable.

As it is we have never, ever taken our children away for more than 4 days due to not being able to take much time off, but we have normally had to do it in term time, as it is the only time we can get time off together. We often have one or other of us working weekends/evenings too. As a school governor and former teacher, I do feel bad about this - but I do honestly believe that our kids get more out of spending a few days camping near the seaside with all of us together than they would at school.

I am not sure that this policy has really been thought through - but it has been around for a long time, and is already almost in force in a number of Local Authorities. In ours no head teacher will authorise absence for nearly half the academic year, and this policy was created before this government was elected.

I'd rather go to court and explain to a judge exactly why I believe my children's education and emotional wellbeing is supplemented by 5 days off school per academic year to spend quality family time and experience new things. I simply cannot afford to do this in term time (we're talking UK here not a week in the sun unfortunately).

Ultimately if I have the right to choose to educate them at home then I (SHOULD) have the right to take them out of school if I have chosen that for a weeks holiday once a year (whilst primary age). Their education is still my responsibility and I believe new experiences are crucial to it.

Tory Nanny state. Wonderful news.

I am a strong believer in good attendance at school, but there is a great difference between playing truant and taking a family holiday. For starters children would be aware that a holiday is a special event which they have had to have asked permission to have during term time, not a sicky because mums/dads can't be bothered to get it of bed to take the kids to school!
I took my niece and nephew to Rome for a LNG weekend. for this they had two days off school. During the trip they were able to see History and Art come to life. They were only 6 and 8 at the time and two years n they still discuss how different life was for the Romans and what it would have been like to have been a spectator at the collesseum. They were also able to learn basic Italian phrases, use Euros instead o £'s and try different food.
How have they impacted their education by taking two days of during term time?
I think the HT should be able to grant time off and this should be based on the child's current attendance record. Let's all be pragmatic about this......

I think it is totally inappropriate to fine parents who take kids out for holiday. Fines do not work in preventing truanting which I believe they are designed to do, going on holiday should not be put in the same bracket as regular truanting.

If the government brings this policy in, they need to do it in conjunction with going to a four term school year. School holidays are a nightmare for working parents they were originally designed so that children could WORK by helping bring in the harvest. Teachers now want to keep the long holiday so they can recover from work!! I know many teachers who have a second home in France and boast that they get 13weeks to enjoy it! The whole school holiday situation needs to be overhauled not more draconian legislation.

I would like to fine schools for closing at a drop of hat and having INSET days in term time because they make parents use up their precious holiday.

INSET days aren't in 'term time'. They were taken from the teachers holidays. Pupils still get their full quota of taught days.

If your school closes for polling day you need to take it up with your local authority. Believe me schools don't want it either. It's a PITA all round.

Completely agree with bearhugs

Here here!

fines only £100!Personally,i can deal with that!