Diane Abbott....racist comment or not?

[festi]

I think If you look and consider what she said in the context of the discussuion she was having. I believe she has a very valid point, she did make a generalised remark and by definition that was racist, but, it was in my opinion acceptable for her to generate discussion and break down the barriers that exist (the fear of counter accusations of racism) in discussuing the exposure openly.

Should we trot out the old stereotypes that exist about 'black people's' behaviour as fact.

Should we question the stop and search issues of black men, because they're black and far more likely to commit a crime as fact?

victor - have you followed the links on this thread?

The Lawrence killers were sentenced according to the law. It had nothing to do with their not being race hate crimes at the time but due to the fat they were minors at the time and so had to be sentenced as minors.

There was a murder not far from me. A Mauritian gang (seem to be causing a lot of trouble in the area lately) attacked a pair of Indian youths walking through a park.
It was generally accepted that it was racially motivated but it was never dealt as such by the police because it was minority/minority.

Anecdotal evidence is not fact. I am aware. Im just pointing out that the idea that it is not racist unless perpetrated by a white person is still very much widely considered true.

Either that or official bodies are so terrified of being considered racists that they play it down.

To say that because DA is a black female she should be afforded special rights to spout such utter bollocks is ridiculous.
because she is a black female she should be making extra sure that her behaviour is impeccable. She should be an inspiration and motivation to others.

It was pretty bad that she was made to apologise for it.

Why are you offended?

Divide and rule isn't a stereotype and it's not an excuse, it was established political and economic policy that directly led to the systematic asset-stripping of non-Western countries in a model that at its height constituted the British Empire and continues today with the antics of global corporations. As a general rule, black people have suffered so that white people can benefit.

It happened. It still happens. Slavery still happens. We have to deal with it.

But not all white people are part of divide and rule. Her white constituents aren't part of it.

Of course Dianne Abbott doesn't have special rights to spout bollocks. It just so happens that, on this occasion, she hasn't said anything that isn't true.

Did she say that she meant some white people in her apology?

victor - there was a police Commissioner who used a statistic in a speech. something along the lines of - most crimes are committed by young black men.

he was pulled apart by the media because it was deemed racially aggravating.

Whilst that statistic was probably true, he failed to speak about the reason behind those statistics. (poor education outcomes for black boys, police targeting black male suspects,lower employment rates etc etc)

so whilst he could have worded it differently and made a useful point, instead he made a racist comment and was pulled up on it.
he may have been sacked/resigned. i don't remember.

DA has made a great number of clearly racist and offensive comments in the media during her career. She is noteworthy for those reasons only.

She said her statement was taken out of context, but did she clarify that she meant some white people?

She hasn't got special rights, she's just not afraid to point out that there's still a shedload of racism around - real racism, not "oh my god she said a RACIST THING!!" type of racism.

It is not the case nowadays victor

It was a present tense remark, not a comment about historical fact.

The latter I would accept, the former I won't.

She is out of line, and you are a number of things I can't say on MN, for actually trying to peddle this idiotic notion that there are no racist undertones in her comment.

Slavery does still happen, and it is abhorrent that it does.

Slavery is illegal in Britain.

I know of not one person who would consider Slavery to be just.

It is appalling to stereoptype modern white British people in this way.

I agree with MMMarmite. It's all about the context of the country. So in the UK which is predominantly white, I just can't see her comments in the same way. MMMarmite said it better though

"It is not the same context as a white person saying this about a black person. We live in a context where, after horrific abuses in the past, white people still have disproportionate power, disproportionate media control, disproportionate control of the police and where black people are still murdered in racially motivated attacks. As whites have more power, 'racist' comments against us effect us less badly than racist comments against black people effect them. In addition, her comment is based on a reasonable criticism of white people's racist colonialist tactics."

Vesela - I agree totally.

Sadly it is comments like these made by DA that provoke yet more of it. there will be ELD and BNP supporters sitting around waxing lyrical about how "we" are now the under class in "our own" country.

There will be normal, moderate thinking people who will hear these headlines, remembers DA's name from other headlines and question why she hasn't been sacked.

They will be inclined to think that those biggots might have a point.

and that is how they gain their seats. Every time someone that should know better says something like this it gives them power.

But i still don't think there is anything she sais that should be considered brave or should be praised in any way shape or form.

I find the racial inequalities in this country - which mean that white people on average live longer, earn more, and are less likely to be attacked or murdered - much more appalling than verbally 'stereotyping' white British people.

When contemporary UK slavery, or other proven racial inequalities, cause as much sustained outrage as what Dianne Abbot said today - she's top of the news, on a day when a potential serial killer has been arrested - I'll have to re-examine what I think.

Agree totally with MMMarmite's comment.

That this news has grabbed such attention on a day when we could be listening to debates on whether the sentences of Dobnson and Norris were too lenient everyone is lathered up about this.
Which goes to show what an inept politicain (or careless Tweeter) DA is AND the great inequality - white people concerned about a careless comment and a crass generalisation.

I took what she said to be shorthand for 'the establishment, largely white and white led, employs divide and rule'. Which it does, and which all powers do. Hardly a contraversial comment.

And how often do black people get accused of having a 'chip' if they challenge the equivalent of stuff like this. And told not to take offence?

Post of 23:19

You are clearly totally deluded as to why the fact behind why the first fact in your first sentence is true!

Why do you suggest that contemporary UK slavery, or other proven racial inequalities do not cause outrage?

You are right now stereotyping?

Are you in fact DA post by stealth?

And of course if there is anything worse happening in the country/world, how dare we moan about this?

Why do you think this has turned into an issue and Miliband apparently phoned her up mid-interview? Why did she have to make an apology?

claig - to me it was obvious that in the original tweet she meant some white people, i.e. those in some sort of a position to divide and rule. But I still don't see why it was offensive. It's her considered view that many of the attitudes prevalent during colonialism haven't really changed, and I don't see why she should be taken to task for having that view.

The people going on about how terribly racist this is remind me of the joke about the old lady who can only see her neighbours getting up to naughty things if she stands on a chair. You're overdoing it.

Wow, how have all these controversial Diane Abbott quotes passed me by over the years? This thread is illuminating.

The tweet thing is offensive, IMO, because it is clearly a statement about white people in the present day.

The West Indian mothers thing...I'm not all that sure...while I can see how people might draw generalisations and leap to the conclusion that the natural corollary of her statement is that all other mothers are crap, I disagree with this assumption. I don't find the implications of her statement about WI mothers offensive; no more than I find it offensive when people say admiringly that Scots are hard or Northerners are the salt of the earth.

But oh my goodness, what the hell is wrong with Diane Abbott? Yesterday I was listening to a speech by Michelle Obama in which she was articulate, connected, humble and so inspiring. Today I am listening to Diane Abbott offend millions and make an arse of herself again. I know we have black women in this country who are far, far better than her; far closer to Michelle Obama in intelligence, wit, and talent, so why is this wretched woman getting all the airplay and they are not?

darcus howe was just on newsnight, racism is alive and well at 11 15 on bbc2 as it was on sky news today when Lee Jasper gave his warped opinions, not forgetting Marc wadsworth. They set Racism back years and will continue to do so as with no racism they would be out of a job

'white people concerned about a careless comment and a crass generalisation'

But it wasn't only white people. What about black MP Chuka Umanna who said the comments were "unacceptable"?

Having read some of the comments on here defending her racism and that's what it is it's obvious that there are double standards in this country regarding race and what's acceptable.
Racial discrimination is wrong and that's from any colour or culture towards another and throwing the old colonialism story into the mix doesn't justify the behaviour (Historic too) of this ignorant MP.
Racial and cultural stereotypes have been jumped all over legally to stop this happening and she isn't immune from the vitriol that is aimed at other racists..she is a racist you know? She's speaking from a position of advantage and power and she's constantly abused that power both as a derogatory spokesperson against anything white and as a thief (See the expenses fiasco).
Don't blame me and other white people as a group for history and stop using as a tool to beat me over the head with to defend a vile individual who is abusing her position of privilege in the name of her egotistical self promotion. She'll be gone hopefully by this time tomorrow and British politics will be the better for it.

Diane Abbot puts her great big foot in her mouth regularly.

And having been a fan in the earlier years, she disappoints me greatly!