Cameron uses UK veto - what will it mean for us and Europe (and the rest of the world)?

[Callisto]

Just that.

I'm glad that DC had the balls to use the veto - the treaty being discussed would not have been good for Britain and could have been bad. However, the Asian markets have already responded by falling and I'm guessing that that US and Euro markets will fall too. So, are there any economists (or otherwise) out there who can throw some light on what may happen next?

Spot on Roastchicken

CarneRoss explains it very well.

Yes, but in the same source as Amicissima cites

'A group of 26 EU member states is to forge ahead with an intergovernmental agreement on tightening economic governance in the eurozone, following a stormy summit in Brussels that saw the UK sidelined after it overplayed its hand.'

It's cackhanded at best to piss everyone off so mightily. It doesn't mean he's cool.

Might happen that the Euro goes TU very soon.

The Bundesbank has just announced it won't take part in the transfer of funding to the IMF that they'd planned would bail out the Eurozone.

Might be over before Christmas.

The more of an arse Cameron makes of it all, and he has made a massive error, the more it furthers the Scottish independence cause.
We have 1 Conservative MP in our whole country FFS, it's actually embarrassing having that utterly incompetent upper class twat representing us.

As for the Lib Dems, totally devoid of a back bone.

Bring on independence %23itsstarting

Roastchicken, are you a financial person?

Interesting post, I would like to hear more.

Because I, for one, don't know WTF is going on!!!

Nobody knows what exactly will happen. This morning's Populus survey for the Times completes the ridiculousness, though.

If the Bundesbank really won't play, and the opposition parties in eg France continue to voice their total opposition to the deal (note how under reported here are all those who dislike the deal across Europe), the harder it will be for this deal to stick.

It's also looking rocky in terms of how the markets react. This deal is about fiscal (and therefore political) union, and has done nothing to alleviate the debt crisis in the Eurozone. It's still looking very bad for them - the ambitious language won't make up in the slightest for the lack of steps to deal with the imminent crisis.

All of this stuff re treaties etc smacks of fiddling while Rome burns ( quite literally in this case).

Boris Johnson explains it all very well here:
www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/borisjohnson/8950101/Were-right-about-the-euro-thats-why-Europe-is-angry.html

This 'treaty' wasn't ever going to 'solve' anything. This is smoke and mirrors and politics as Merkozy both have elections next year. We are no more isolated than we were before.

So agree with Roast chicken. Cameron didn't go and negotiate as our Prime minister but as Tory leader and has sacrificed UK influence.

That was a good article by Boris.

Fundamentally, the EU is turning to very undemocratic means to try and solve this financial crisis. Removing the Prime Ministers of Greece and Italy and imposing a bureacrat from Brussels to ram through austerity measures, trying to impose a tax on UK financial services industry without the people of the UK having any democratic process by which we can express our opinion.

Boris is right. The Brussels bureaucrats are angry and they are frightened their project is failing. Lashing out and trying to damage the City is driven by their desire to try and control financial markets that hour by hour and day by day are picking apart the single currency and exposing the rotten financial state of most European countries - France is next in the firing line and likely will lose its AAA credit rating before the election which of course will reflect badly on Sarkozy and force austerity on France itself.

There was also an interesting interview on Today with a US Economics professor, who said that the EZ countries can sort themselves out if the ECB prints money, and that he thinks it odd that the EZ needs bailing out via the IMF.

There was also an interesting comment in the DT yesterday that the UK doesn't sign up instantly to EU things as we want to think about and debate it, and are accused of holding Europe back; but when we do sign up we do it and implement it in full. Other nations sign up instantly and then ignore the rules.

fuckingwonderwoman, that article is brilliant. Thank you

There was also an interesting comment in the DT yesterday that the UK doesn't sign up instantly to EU things as we want to think about and debate it, and are accused of holding Europe back; but when we do sign up we do it and implement it in full. Other nations sign up instantly and then ignore the rules.

That is so true. In years of working with European colleagues even my French colleagues say that. The British are awkward and make life difficult at the law- making stage but once signed up obey the rules in general. Some of the other countries shrug and sign up then proceed to carry on as before.

We see it in the Human Rights area (yes, I know that is not EU legislation). Our judges interpret it to the letter of the law. Others in some European countries regard it as 'flexible'.

Actually, that is exactly what you have seen over EU rules with regards to financial probity and e.g. conditions of membership. If the rules don't suit, they shrug, find a loophole and get round it anyway in the apparent interests of the grand plan. The EU can't even get its budgets signed off by the auditors, but hey ho......

Just seen a news report: this morning there have been falls on the British, French and German stock markets. But the pound is up against the euro.

"I was proud of primister Pitt when he saw off slavery
I was was proud of Churchill when he saw of hitler
And I am proud of Camron for saving our sovereignty
My grandad died to save our sovereignty I glad camron did not loose his nerve"

Oh dear, oh dear

Having not read the final agreement myself, it is difficult to give a balanced judgement (although I am happy to see that's not stopping anyone from having very harsh opinions :-). I particularly like this quote: "you can kiss goodbye free bank accounts", which is then backed up with examples of Australia and South Africa. Are both these countries not very much financially deregulated...? On the other hand, bank accounts in most of the Eurozone are just as 'free' as those in the UK (transactions are free, but you pay a minor amount for your card). Furthermore you can actually take money out of any Euro cash point anyhwere for free, no matter in which country you are banking. Do it with a British bank account on the other hand, and you pay a lovely fee. It is awful! :-)

Back on the subject, at the moment I think it a mistake to 'snub' the EU by vetoing over this issue; EU countries are the UKs main business partners (that includes sales) and we need as much export as we can atm. Furthermore in the long run I feel that the UK will not be able to influence EU policy much anymore (which could actually be a good thing in my opinion, it may help improve worker's rights etc. as currently wages are very low compared to other richer EU countries). However, it remains dangerous to give up potential influence in such a powerful institution. Europe is not going away with this veto of course.

Also I am annoyed that it is done to preserve keeping the city as a 'freehaven' for business. Of course individuals working there pay taxes, but banks and financial institutions have managed to get around a lot of rules and regulations (and taxes). It is this kind of deregulation that set off the financial crisis in the first place and DC appears to be desperately clinging on to this (possibly due to perceived pressure from backbenchers and newspapers and to show he is a 'real' conservative). Gives me the impression we live in a 'Banker's Britain' where one set of rules applies to financial institutions in the city and another to the general public (which includes the people working in the city).

Bennifer - ignore ignore ignore. A sad desperate attempt to kid oneself that Britain has some kind of strength. The strength to self-destruct with some kind of warped and blinkered pride, perhaps.

Relying on Britain to survive on the transactions of tax dodgers will leave us extremely vulnerable.

"Fundamentally, the EU is turning to very undemocratic means to try and solve this financial crisis. Removing the Prime Ministers of Greece and Italy and imposing a bureacrat from Brussels to ram through austerity measures"

Actually, Berlusconi lost his majority in the Parlamento, this is why he had to go. Because he was unable to start any kind of reform that can vaguely save us from default.

Personally, I wouldn't be happy if Italy had to default. Italy needs some austerity measures, sadly. As we have lived above our means far too long.

And it is not true that most Italian are eurosceptics. The healthiest areas of Italian economy have benefitted from having the Euro.

I don't want to live in a country with a weak lira, that benefits only shoemakers.

And to be honest, I'd rather have a Brussels technocrat in charge of my country than bloody Berlsuconi. How patronizing.