Cameron uses UK veto - what will it mean for us and Europe (and the rest of the world)?

[Callisto]

Just that.

I'm glad that DC had the balls to use the veto - the treaty being discussed would not have been good for Britain and could have been bad. However, the Asian markets have already responded by falling and I'm guessing that that US and Euro markets will fall too. So, are there any economists (or otherwise) out there who can throw some light on what may happen next?

'Furthermore you can actually take money out of any Euro cash point anyhwere for free, no matter in which country you are banking.'

No, you can't. ING (Belgium) have started charging for any cash withdrawal not made from an ING cashpoint. I had the letter advising me of this last month. Thus, when I went into Brussels today to the Christmas market and could only find a Dexia cashpoint, I will be charged for withdrawing cash.

Did anyone see Paddy Ashdown on Newsnight tonight? I always thought the man was an idiot - he really underlined that tonight.

Maypole, you may wish to study history on top of your economics, as Italy was totally ok to get in the euro. Greece joined later.

To be honest my gut reaction after reading this thread is of shock.

agree Franca, just been reading this thread and the other similar one and am . How can it ever be a good thing to not be round the table in negotiations re something which concerns the UK? How can the UK ever hope to compete in a global economy on it's own? How can anyone think that a veto that has stopped precisely zero be a success? What's all the talk about Italy and it's alleged dictatorship when it was approved by elected personnel? Anyway speaking as someone with an Italian DP, living in Italy give me a Mario Monti "dictatorship" over a Berlusconi led democracy any day! And also agree re the fact Italians are generally not Eurosceptics. Dp works for a newspaper and all the journalists in his workplace are genuinely bemused by Cameron and his stance. They are not in denial regarding the issues facing the Eurozone. They just can't comprehend why we prefer to invoke the Bulldog spirit of the past instead of building a stronger alliance together to tackle the future. Obviously I cant speak for the entire country but the press, TV etc is generally pro Europe whereas we get Up Eurs from the Sun!

The Leghisti seem to be the most vocal anti Eurs in Italy. A party I am not keen to be associated with.

You realise there's a European Parliament, oodles of committees, MEPs elected by every member state, blocs within the Parliament... It's really not a case of government by external people unless some state wants to thumb its nose at the whole business, as Britain has done since 1973. UK MEPs are all accountable to UK voters. Here they are, all 78 of them.

In Ireland, it's Sinn Fein waiting in the wings, licking their chops. Give me Brian Cowen any day...

Does anyone know how long it would take for this deal to be formally accepted and come into effect?

Francoise Hollande is ahead in the opinion polls in France, so if he became President in April, he would take France out of the deal. Would that still be possible at that time? And it's an interesting light on whether this deal is really what EZ countries want, or if it is Sarkozy/Merkell spin.

Presumable all countries have to put it to their Parliaments? Reporting from Sweden, the Czech Republic and Hungary suggests it may not pass smoothly - and if another country falters, will more do so?

but outside the Leghisti you dont hear much anti-European sentiment Franca I don't find.

Yes, this is what I find too Gio. However, I am pretty sure that the anti euro brigade will grow, following resentment for new reforms (which Italy does need, I am afraid to say)

The leader of the French Socialists Francois Hollande has said he won't ratify the latest Eurofudge. Also Italy are talking about what they would do if they were to leave the euro

Seems like dave is not the only one who this this is horse shit

A ring with in a ring with a outer ring with in the eu these people are just fools

The French and the Germans will not be allowed to get this trough without a fight they are both facing elections if the French president fails it will mean a vote of no confidence.

Hardly seems like the strong 26 red ed was droning on about

They can talk all they like, but Germany is paying the piper.

OK explain how this one works:
EU / EZ countries don't meet the new budget deficit rules and face sanctions : make em pay a fine??? That's really going to improve their njumbers.

What about Greece which, even with the latest austerity plan, if it is followed through to the bitter end (lol), will still be at 120% debt to GDP by 2020?? Will they be fined for the next eight years on the trot? And all the others?

imho Cameron was right to block the deal (EU Commission vetting of national budgets FFS!) but for the wrong reasons. Its all horse shit

Totally agree Maypole

i thing Greece, Italy, Portugal and many other countries should have had their national budgets audited by the EU a long time ago. They have been overspending and not collecting tax for years. it is not just the banks to blame, the banks crashing brought the problem to the fore but a lot of countries have been living on credit for years. Germany does not live on credit but has healthy manufacturing and it is the only country able to provide stability.
Put the Germans in charge

And who exactly is going to audit them; the EU accounts have not been signed off for years because the auditors won't sign them,plus even if they do audit them what makes anyone think that the national governments will implement the advice of the EU auditors,they haven't so far have they??

Practically all of the members of the Euro have broken the terms of the original treaty and budgetary rules,yes including Germany.What did they decide to do; they decided to waive the rules not to penalise themselves and look where we are now.They can enact whatever treaty they want the one sure thing is that when the going gets tough they will ignore it and take the easy way out.Poor old Germany ,the budgetary policeman of Europe ,like someone said earlier Gemany can lecture and hector but ultimately it only has one option;bail them out again .

The UK is safe in Europe because we are one of only 2 net contributors ,no wonder all the others agreed they are all on the EU gravy train,without the UK that gravy train will dry up ,Germany needs us because we are the nearest Economy to theirs and they will need an ally if they are going to force everyone else to give up the CAP and the fishing subsidies etc.

Farage put it well in the EU Parliament today when he said that we have been good Europeans, contributing £50M a day, bailing out the Eurozone when we weren't even part of it, giving up out fishing rights etc etc, yet when we ask for a concession for the City that's vital to our own national interests we're denied it.

He then went to to say that he worried about the inevitable retribution that would follow from Cameron's actions - and at that particular statement there's a German MEP in the background smiling and nodding vigorously.

They treat us with contempt.

Banana - I suspect v. few people will shed tears over Berlusconi's departure but democracy requires a government actually elected by the people. Voting is essential. What Italy and Greece have now is not democracy. Dressing it up in the word technocrat doesn't make it anything other than the overthrow of elected governments and the installation of a puppet regime.