Cameron uses UK veto - what will it mean for us and Europe (and the rest of the world)?

[Callisto]

Just that.

I'm glad that DC had the balls to use the veto - the treaty being discussed would not have been good for Britain and could have been bad. However, the Asian markets have already responded by falling and I'm guessing that that US and Euro markets will fall too. So, are there any economists (or otherwise) out there who can throw some light on what may happen next?

Have you read Boomerang?

what's that?

Interesting perspective from a diplomat's point of view.

It's by Michael Lewis, about the financial crisis, looking at Iceland, ireland etc. It's only short, very easy to read and quite funny. I want you to read it and tell me what you think. Please.

HullyGully, I just looked at a Guardian review of Boomerang and it looks to me a bit like cliche, putting some of the blame on 'national characteristics'.

It's about power and not about 'national characteristics'.

In examining the cases of Iceland, Ireland, Greece and Germany, Lewis seeks to attribute the differing causes of economic turmoil and their varying outcomes to each country's distinctive national characteristics.

Thus Iceland went mad on banking because, as a nation of fishermen, it has a culture steeped in macho risk-taking; Ireland went mad on house buying because, as a nation beset by a history of oppression and exploitation, landowning was the ultimate escape from the past; Greece went mad on avoiding tax payment and collection because, as a nation built on feuding, nepotism and graft, no one trusts anyone else and each Greek is out to look after himself; while Germany is left to pay the bill for the madness because, as an anally well organised nation with a cultural obsession with Scheiße, it likes the thrill of thrusting its clean fingers into other people's crap.

www.guardian.co.uk/books/2011/oct/21/boomerang-michael-lewis-review

That's interesting bob.

To be fair, Cameron's just using the Tobin tax as an excuse.

' as a nation of fishermen, it has a culture steeped in macho risk-taking'

blimey, that is trenchant analysis. It puts the blame on those funny furriners and not where it really lies.

Read it claig, reviews have to summarise. It's funny, and has some interesting insights into national characteristics and some truly fabulous interviews. The Greek monks are outstanding.

That's the danger in extrapolating from a review.

And in turn you can read "This time is different". It's long, quite detailed and heavy on the technical stuff and only vaguely funny

But seriously, it's brilliant. It basically says "there are economic cycles. People who say "this time is different" and think they've cheated the economic cycles are morons". There's a whole long thing about how the countries in Europe most likely to default are:

• Spain
• Portugal
• Ireland
• Greece

In fact, it's actually a bit stupid to sneer and jeer based on a review.

Thank bloody fuck.

Now I do not need to defect to ukip for a while.

Thanks Cameron.

Ok, deal. I'll download it to kindle. I still have to read, Whoops and The return to Depression Economics as well.

Ok, I've bought it. Should arive in a few days (kindle was more expensive!). Have you got Boomerang yet?

Boomerang says the same thing but with funny bits.

'In fact, it's actually a bit stupid to sneer and jeer based on a review.'

But it's a Guardian review. Are you saying that the reviewer hasn't been able to extract the gist of the book?

When I see that it talks about national characteristics and "macho risk taking culture", it's obvious that it is ckiched and will not analyse where the real blame lies. Yes, I bet it's funny, and I have read some of his other books, but funny and serious are miles apart.

What do the monks say? It wouldn't surprise me if they knew the real truth about the powerful forces involved.

Oh claig. You now want me to discuss a book with you that you not only haven't read, but already have an opinion about?

Why would I do that?

Deal. (don't have a kindle, will have to get the book version. May take a few days)

Read it, then decide.

To claig, not you abs.

No, I haven't got time to read everything. I've read Liar's Poker so I know what he is like. I have to decide whether to read a book, based on its contents and yes I do use reviews to help me decide if it is worth spending the time to read a book. There are other sources available that give a more realistic view about what lies behind the collapse, that had been predicted by many people way before it happened.

National characteristics and 'macho culture' are the type of things the Sun might talk about, but they aren't serious.

Personally I think Dave is pandering to the eurosceptics in his party and his use of the veto is Not A Good Thing.

The Euro going under will be fairly catastrophic for most major economies, certainly the Western ones (including the US). A country leaving the Euro, such as Greece, could have fairly catastrophic consequences for that country, hyperinflation for a start.

It sounds like scaremongering and I possibly don't really know what I am talking about, but a situtaion of hyperinflation and a fractured Europe could have pose serious problems for political stability in the region, which is, after all, what the EU was formed (all those years ago, under its previous names) to avoid.

(I have mixed views about Europe, would describe myself as closer to phile than sceptic, but like everyone want to see the best possible outcome).

I am watching this debate with fascination though.

I am at a loss.

In defence of the book, for others that may be reading and get the wrong idea from your ill-informed review reading snap-opinion forming posts, he does cover the causes. He covers the causes and the different reasons why each country reacted differently to what happened.

But you carry on thinking whatever you want, claig. No skin off my etc.