You know this "all children need is love" stuff? Apparently it's all balls.

[HecateGoddessOfTheNight]

and they actually ARE unhappy without material goods

Mine are certainly screwed then.

Although there's stuff on there about quality time, much of it involves the handing over of cash.

Are we raising a generation of people with pound signs in their eyes?

As if we didn't have enough to feel guilty about, now we are told we are making our children miserable if we can't buy them enough stuff!

It is definitley about fitting into a social group rather than the actual material thing itself.

We have a very long discussion with DS1 and DS2 the other day about clothes. They want clothes in styles that teenagers wear (Superdry, Jack Wills, Abercrombie & Fitch). They are not quite old enough (age 11 and 9) to physically fit into these actual brands yet as they dont make them that small but we went and found shops that had similar styles for children. We told them they could choose a few really expensive items (£40 for a hoodie FGS!) at places like Animal. We told them they could go and see friends in these or wear on 'home clothes day' at school but that they also had to buy cheaper things to wear for just playing in or generally around the house.

We felt we had acknowledged their need to fit in with friends and be 'fashionable' but limited the actual amount they could spend. They were happy with that. In fact they do get a lot of material things that other children don't have. For example, they go on a lot of trips, we pay school fees and buy a lot sports kit and spend money on clubs and we eat out but they dont count that as 'what they want'. Its just part of life for them.

I had similarly bad experiences as many on this thread. I do not look back on my childhood with happiness at all and a large part of that is just because my parents were totally dismissive of anything I wanted to have for myself. I quickly learned to not ask for anything and still today find it hard to ask for anything from people. I expect to be told no, so I don't ask. My DW had a very poor but loving upbringing and similarly felt very left out as her parents could not afford anything much. I think this is why we both respond, perhaps over indulgently, to our DSs wanting to have things. We both know how unhappy we felt not having at least some material things we wanted.

I do actually agree with the article that, at the extreme, not having at least some material things to make you fit in with your social group makes you unhappy.

Re the pocket money issue, is it possible lots of kids today get everything provided for them materially but don't get any pocket money?

So, for them, its like 'yeah I've got all this great stuff and nice clothes but it'd be nice to save up and choose something myself once in a while" ?

I remember me and my sister spending our whole £5 pocket money entirely on cheap, 100% glucose, sweets, shit loads of it there was. This was when we was in secondary school, we weren't that young. It was brill, sometimes thats just what kids want to do, a tiny bit of independence clawed back from the parents.

And I don't find an 8-15yr old wanting an ipod that scary, if it was an iPAD, yes.

Dipdap, you must be my dsis. She spend £5 on penny sweets, mostly postman pats as they were her fav but she threw in some fruit salads and black jacks for me! (Yes, I do have fillings)

WhollyGhost
My DD is now 9yo and pink has been eeeuggghh for years. She wears a lot of black and grey now.

DipDap
Pocket money is a good thing. We give our DC quite a lot because we want them to be able to save it and buy something, which is impossible to achieve if you only give them 50p a week.

DD bought herself a netbook this year, and DS (7yo) has saved over ?200 as well.

merrymarigold, that must have kept her quiet for a very long time! My little sister used to stash them in her bedside drawer if she had an 'oversupply'.

We used to like that, is it called, 'popping candy'? It crackles in your mouth. Probably drove my mum n dad mad, we were like 12 and 14, you'd think we'd have known better!

Funnily enough, I've been clean for about 15yrs now, think I got it out my system!

Yeah I remember that stuff. Ds1 had a lolly in the summer (something like a Solero) and it had that popping stuff all over the outside. It was a bit weird, he kept holding his ears (he's 5) and when I had some it does make your ears go a bit funny!

I suppose I am quite lucky that DS doesnt really feel the need to 'fit in' He is 10 and he does have his own style which is fine by me. He likes skinny jeans and converse type trainers when all his friends wear joggers and Nike trainers. He has one of those sealed tins which we put change in for his savings account. He gets £1 to take to the shop after school on Friday.

When I was 10 I asked to go to London Zoo. I asked my parents if I we could go instead of a present and party. They agreed but we never went. It sounds a bit grasping but I was so upset at the time. Birthdays we often forgotten about in our house and presents were rare.

'I can't imagine that there are many 15 year olds who don't get some pocket money from their parents.'

I didn't. I worked. I didn't feel hard done by.

I'd want to see how that survey was conducted before I commit to any hand-wringing about the state of the nation.

still suspicious after the other week when I and my colleagues were asked to grade a number of changes in the workplace on a scale from High Positive Impact to Low Positive Impact with no box for comments that fell outside this scale

but do agree with other posters that the importance of pocket money is quite likely to be about a desire for more independence

I worked too, no pocket money. I had some control by that point, it was world's better than not asking for stuff!

I worked from 14. They don't seem to do that now, do they? All laws and no jobs.

I wasn't allowed to work

"we'll give you anything you need"
"I need .... "
"What? That's ridiculous, we bought you some new clothes last year..."

Their way of buying clothes was to only shop in the sales and only buy based on the biggest discount size was not important, our personal taste was irrelevant

that is a good way to make your children unhappy

Mind you., I didn't want to. I HATED it. Standing in sodding boring shops.

And I hated it so much that I saved up all my money as I couldn't bear to spend it when it was so hard earned!

I worked from 14 too - Flower stall at the weekends. Not too bad in the summer but the 3.30am starts were a killer, the pay was terrible and the man who ran the stall was a right old bastard.

I had that problem too WhollyGhost.
It was awful, I had the worst clothes in the class too. What a crap feeling that was!

Hullygully Wed 09-Nov-11 11:29:01
Hec - it is unlike you to post such a DMish post, and one that isn't really accurate?

Woke up this morning, saw the lead story on yahoo news - you're failing your kids if you don't give them i-pods and mp3 players - they'll be really really unhappy and it's all your fault (projecting much? ) and thought it worthy of discussion. is it true? and if it is - are we raising children to value 'stuff' above other things because of the value society places on 'stuff'. Is that the message they get? Do they really feel miserable without items of value? miserable without an i-pod? pad. whatever the hell those things are.

Agonies of guilt, I suppose you can put it down to. my kids are certainly deprived of material goods and I always told myself it didn't really matter because I love them, I give them what I can and do my best and nobody really needs a million high tech gadgets. Now here's this survey saying lack of 'stuff' makes children miserable. Really miserable. Not a happy thing to read over my morning coffee

and if you ever accuse me of coming over all daily mail again, I shall bite you.

I is offended.

promises promises

But Hec, did you read the article you linked to? The "stuff" was mostly family outings and holidays, not Wiis and whatnot.

I thought I did. Clearly I couldn't have because I got a message from it that nobody else seemed to

Hey You, Yes You. You Don't Buy Your Kids Lots Of Stuff - You Great Big Failure.

I am going to have to stop going on the net before I've put on my rational head of a morning.

Or maybe get over my issssshooooos about not being able to drape the kids in nike and tiny little gadgets.

I had a very good childhood with parents who listened to me and allowed me financial independence insofar as their own financial situation allowed and was compatible with their other goals in life (e.g. giving us a good education) and who allowed us a say in how the family was run and cheerfully accepted making sacrifices of their own for the general good.

The result was I have very few hung-ups about money at all; I did not feel deprived as a child and I very rarely feel guilt about denying my own children things- because I know I would be happy about giving if it seemed a good idea. Dcs also seem very relaxed about the whole thing; they will moan occasionally, but their hearts aren't really in it.

But that is precisely because we have felt listened to. If you don't feel listened to, then you will feel differently and it's not because you are a grasping or materialistic person; it's because one of your most basic needs has not been met.

The most unsatisfied child I have ever known was the teen daughter of MILs neighbour. This was girl was showered in things, always allowed any leisure activities she wanted, never short of money. But her mother didn't seem to like her much, she was always telling the neighbours new stories of how difficult her dd was, never seemed to relate directly to the girl, it was always about her. Her father spent all his time up in the loft with a hobby which the girl was not invited to share.

MIL who had brought up two sons on very little money, but with a great deal of cheerfulness, thought this was sad: her sons had had so much fun and the family was still so close. The mother was a very nice woman and well liked by the neighbours, and the daughter who always seemed whiny and unsatisfied was not like at all. But even so...