You know this "all children need is love" stuff? Apparently it's all balls.

[HecateGoddessOfTheNight]

and they actually ARE unhappy without material goods

Mine are certainly screwed then.

Although there's stuff on there about quality time, much of it involves the handing over of cash.

Are we raising a generation of people with pound signs in their eyes?

As if we didn't have enough to feel guilty about, now we are told we are making our children miserable if we can't buy them enough stuff!

I am now imagining Lenin making 'street' hand gestures whilst she is being 'hip to the hop' .

I like to think I am.....but that always certainly means I am not. Innit?

I asked my mother years later why I had to wear school uniform when there wasn't one, and she said, There were so many of you (the others didn't wear it, I was oldest) it saved money.

I couldn't pursue it in case it hurt her feelings. The irony.

That's it exactly, it's ridiculous, funny (in a retro way ) and sad.
He prides himself on not having ever had an overdraft but I just think, man, if you ever needed to take on a bit of debt, it was when you thought an umbrella was a teenage girl's dream present Of course you had to go to the bank manager and sort it face to face then...

The article says 25% of children never have family trips/days out - I find that sad if that's accurate.

Talk about crap consistency; when my Dad ran off with my Mum's best friend he bought all three of us a present . db got a professional standard cricket bat (£40 circa 1980) db2 a sports bag (£10) me a doll's dress (£2.50).

I know my place.

Hully, clearly the cost of uniform has gone up since then, because judging by the threads i read...

Oh Prune. My Dad had a similar upbringing. It didn't matter about what other children did because everything was a sign of their lack of standards and confirmation that my grandparents were Doing It Right. My Dad, for example, was in short trousers and ruffled shirt at school, even though long trousers and plain shirts were the norm. Because they were a good Christian family with morals. And wanting stuff was wrong and you'd get a useful present like some more short trousers and some brylcream to emphasise need over want. He also got a good wallop every now and then to remind him what he would get if he ever did anything wrong. And he's grown up with terrible inabilities to say no to things, an addictive personality and severe depression.

Sorry, shouldn't rant.

I had not much to speak of as a child and I would have been okay had it not been for Other Children making me feel bloody wretched. I was v good at pretending I didn't care, mostly to my parents as I understood we were just skint and they couldn't help it. And my Dad would take us on holiday down the road and unbeknownst to us nip out when we were asleep in our tent to do a night shift in order to afford it. I bleddy loved those holidays, even more so now that I know what my father did. The love, care, respect and effort put in by my parents was just enough to make up for the lack of material goods and as an adult, I am actually not remotely fussed by 'things' as a result but it was really, desperately difficult to go without all the time.

Even at 4yo and in reception class, dd is already 'fitting in' by turning her nose up at her packed lunch in order to go and play outside instead. Because other children do.

It's not really all that shocking is it? Children always wanted to have what their peers had - in my childhood it might be roller skates or a Sindy doll. Principle is the same - just more expensive. Children just reflect the attitudes of the society they are born into - society is materialistic, why is it surprising that children are too. Regardless of their parents' values to a large extent.

Article didn't say they didn't need love as well.

Interesting, whether accurate or not. I was thinking back to my childhood in the dim and distant past... and yes, I think those things probably topped my happiness list (except the iPod).
We had a holiday every year, but mostly in a caravan on the south coast. We did do one year in a holiday camp but in Scarborough - a compromise on my parents' part. We never went abroad.

I had days out with my Dad quite a lot - and some days out with the whole family, but mostly I remember the ones with Dad. Mum used to mostly take us shopping on a Saturday as our day out.

Clothes was the big one for me. I am not a fashionista of any kind, but I just wanted to look normal FFS and wear nice clothes that a) fit me properly and b) suited me. Didn't happen much! My favourite dress was one I found in a jumble sale - fit and suited me, thank goodness, and was even almost stylish. Otherwise I was in homemade shift dresses (Mum wasn't a good seamstress) or knitted stuff by my Nan, who did (bless her heart) try to keep up with the trends when I hit my teens, so I was quite happy to wear the things she made for me once I had control of the style. As a younger child, I stuck out like a sore thumb most of the time and I hated that. :(

Music - well, I suppose an iPod now is only like a radio back in the dim and distant (pre-Walkman) - and I snaffled my Mum's radio-cassette player quite quickly after she bought it so I could listen to Capital Radio and record the music - yes, I would have been distinctly less happy without that. Knowing what was in the charts was so important as a teen in the early 80s.

Didn't get pocket money at all, so started working for myself (paper round, well holiday cover for one anyway, and then in a take away shop when I was 15). The joy of going shopping on my own for the first time with my own money! It was hugely liberating.

We had the garden and we also had the ability to go round each other's houses and play in their gardens too, from about the age of 7 or 8, I'd say. That helped a LOT.

Anyway. I can see there are elements of truth in the report without it being all about materialism and greed - IME it is primarily the need to fit in, to have what the others have so you don't get teased or feel left out, and so you have common ground to discuss things with your peers. I couldn't talk about pop music until I was 12 and the radio cassette player entered my life because my Dad had a strong aversion to it so we weren't allowed to watch TOTP or anything similar.

SOH
Your dad sounds lovely. So sad that his upbringing had such an affect on him.

I wonder though, after reading your post that it was not your feelings about being under privileged but the reactions of others - that is the thing that is important to instil into our DC.

"Oh, Mrs Smith down the road, did you see that they are still driving that old banger" - kids pick up on comments like that. And they model their behaviour on that or their parents.

SOH When I read things like that, I feel a kind of rage at how we (society, some of us) feel we can't have things or do things and it's so unfair. My dad too grew up with the idea that if you need something you bloody work to get it (just, you know, don't enjoy it too much!).
His mother does presents like you describe - sensible pants! Adaptor sockets! We laughed at her affectionately but it must have been crap for dad when he was little.

Prune, it must be so disappointing for them when they die and there's no seat in glory to reward them for their meanspirited little lives...

All this is in contrast to DH's upbringing. He had pretty much anything he wanted and it wasn't even an issue. He's a modest sort of person but he appreciates good 'kit' and he's never felt that longing to have something that fits in. Massively connected to the money situation of course. It's such a non-issue for him.

Hully, my dad's an atheist - it's more that he grew up in a tiny village and the Church was a big deal so he went to Sunday School and of course it's always there in school. The Minister was a big person. I find that where I come from, there's a sort of pervasive puritanism as a hangover from the old-style Church (it's all clappy and nice now I think!) even though hardly anyone goes.

One year my DH, then 12, asked for and got the following birthday presents:

1. A curtain rod, so he could hang his curtain, and
2. His bedroom door fixed so he could shut it properly, and I think maybe a little lock for it?

It blows my mind to this day that his parents did not hear this request, feel horrendously guilty, and offer to also get him, like, a book or a tape or something. They weren't that poor.

LaPrune - for some people it does work that way. I wonder if my DD would be interested in designer gear if she knew she couldn't have it? We spend money on 'kit' for sure, and the other stuff gets offered for xmas etc.

My DH asked for a recorder for xmas one year. Obviously he meant cassette recorder - he wasn't a musical child. He never told his parents what a disappointment the instrument was.

But worse really was the year he got given several board games - and none of the adults (he was an only) thought to actually play them with him.

'Stuff' doesn't cut it without the time and thought part.

Lenin
Perhaps it is the acknowledgement that the parents are listening and trying their best more htan the actual stuff.

So if your DS says, "I want a Nintendo" and you say, "That is nice dear. How about a instead?", he might not be happy.

But if you say, "You know what, I think that Nintendos are not that great, why don't we have a look at alternatives. What do you think about the iPod"

and if you don't have ££ then

"Well, to be honest, a Nintendo is a very expensive gift and we cannot afford it at the moment. What else would you like? Do your friends have a toy that you enjoy playing with?"

god, Prune, imagine living like that without even the prospect of a seat in Glory...

just wow.

And pore Grimma's dh

Yup, I agree - a bit of material stuff according to your abilities and a lot of just being a nice person with your children. (And a bit of work ethic too, I would add.)

Agree Grimma - my parents probably spent money on our presents and clothes, but without bothering to invest any time or thought, all were wildly unsuitable. I dreaded opening my present on Christmas day, and was too polite to tell them that it was never anything I could want or use. I did not have much in the way of stuff, so I wonder now if my mother was actually being spiteful in managing to find things that were so crap e.g. a set of voluminising hair products as the only present for a child with big, unmanagable hair. I was always teased because of my horrible clothes and felt miserable and awkward as a result (my clothes really were awful, looking at pictures now, I see why my nickname was scarecrow). It would not have cost much money to enable me to fit in where we lived.

I never thought I'd dress my own DD in pink, but I see now how important it is for her to fit in, so I relented and buy her things she will like wearing. We don't always agree but compromise is not that hard. I love shopping for her birthday and Christmas, I love knowing that she will feel excited about her toys and that she will know that she is loved, not because we've spent much, but because we know her and what she likes and we want her to be happy. That is why children with the "stuff" on this list feel more secure and happy.