People feeling under pressure to wear a poppy.

[schroeder]

Yesterday on the bbc news a very interesting conversation about the increasing pressure people feel to wear a poppy seemed about to start, but was cut short. It was something to do with football shirts I think.

I feel this is a conversation that should be had. I work with the public and feel uncomfortable every year when it is expected of me to wear one.

It's not the wearing so much that bothers me, but that in doing so I am supporting a charity I would not support otherwise.
Surely we should not all feel forced to give to this charity whether we like it or not?
I do not think even the British legion woud want poppies to be compulsary?

In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

John McCrae, 1915

How does that make the symbol simple?

The poppy evokes WWI to me and many others because of that poem. But it is also used to commemorate the dead of other wars. I do not like this idea of lumping together different conflicts, with different moral issues. The reasons for fighting WWI are totally unlike those for WWII, or for the war in Iraq now. Parts of my family are German (East German to be precise, and other parts are Russian so you can imagine how family gatherings go). I don't feel comfortable with looking back to the world wars, and especially to the jingoistic rhetoric of that poem, when remembering the dead.

Jingoistic???! oh my gosh.

no it's simple

it's not about the war, it's about humans who give up their lives and loves and die in wars

it is relevant for anti-war protestors, it is relevant for pro-milatiristic - it is sad that people die in war

it is a symbol of respect - we know you existed, we know you died in fear and pain - our world is not perfect still

I can't let that go - McCrae was a surgeon at the Somme and wrote that poem after burying his good friend... what possible interpretation can you make to label it 'jingoistic'?? At a stretch I suppose 'take up our quarrel with the foe' but you really would be s t r e t c h i n g it there i think... I'm stepping away now

I know who he was and what he did. It is a beautiful poem and, for its time, I think it's very eloquent of how he felt about war.

But these days, we don't refer to war in that way, and if someone did, we would I think find it inappropriate. The lines about the 'torch' make war into a ceremonial game. I don't criticize the poet for it - but it's a sign of how times and attitudes change.

IMO, that's a problem with the poppy. All wars are not the same. It's wrong to pretend the same symbol can and should stand for the dead of WWI and the dead of all other wars since. And I for one can't separate the WWI symbolism from its context.

Do people judge people who don't wear poppies then? i don't, it upsets ds4 is I do as it's a change. I still buy one though, or rather shove a quid in collection pot.

Didn;t realise people were judging me for it.

I'm not aware of the judging either. I don't wear one as I am constantly picking DD up and she pulls them apart or they fall off. However I do give a donation every year, being ex military myself, married to DH who has just come out of the military and from a military family it's a charity very dear to me.

In fact if you watch the parade in London next Sunday I will be marching.......wearing a poppy and feeling very proud!!!!!

I'm not sure this is going anywhere.

If people want to wear poppies or not that is up to them.

What I am concerned about is the idea that people in public life are feeling under pressure to wear them and that, that is not a desirable thing. It means that people's freedom is restricted unnecessarily.

I appreciate the comments of those on the thread who have understood this and added to my thoughts in a much more eloquent way than I ever could.

meditrina Sun 06-Nov-11 16:15:56
"cory : the servicemen (and women) do not get to pick and choose where they are sent. That's the job of the politicians."

I do appreciate that. But anyone who joins the army these days knows that there is a fair chance that they will not only be deployed in fights to save their own country or democracy. They make that choice. Nobody is forced to
join the army these days, any more than people are forced to take up any other job. It is a very different situation from people volunteering or being conscripted in the WWs.

I would be very happy to wear the poppy if the concept associated with it was the sadness of war. But that is not how it is advertised by the Poppy Appeal; in all the adverts I have seen it has been about our heroes who fight for us (present tense).

And the one place where there is real pressure to buy a poppy is our primary schools. Even more so a few years ago during the early years of the Iraq war.

I know of at least one magic circle law firm which insists its staff wear poppies when in front of clients (has led to a few discussions given how international the staff at such a law firm tends to be). There is a box of poppies and if yours is on "the other coat" you take one to wear.

Now that I do think is silly. If you want to support the British Legion, all power to you. If you don't, then that's fine too. Coercion is unpleasant, and not at all, I'd imagine, what the people who we'd be wearing the poppies for would want.

I do associate it with the sadness of war, and it's purpose is to commemorate the fallen and the damaged, whatever the conflict (or indeed whatever the source of their impairment arising from military service).

The RBL does a great deal for all sorts of veterans and their families, whether of current or past conflicts. And as they include former national service personnel in their definition of eligibility, they are a major provider of welfare assistance to a huge proportion of the current elderly (grants, holidays, financial advice, mobility scooters, household repairs, panic/emergency alerts) as well as cross subsidising other charities (CAB, housing, SSAFA) A lot is unsung, but really makes a difference.

But it's not just what they do as a charity (which is why I don't see it as simple), it is also a national act of commemoration. Wearing a poppy says more than a donation.

But, as I've posted above, it's up to individuals to decide if they want to mark the national day of mourning and commemoration. Here's another shameless lift from that military site: "I always thought that the whole idea of the poppy was the freedom to wear it or not. The media thing of if we don't wear it we'll get a lot of grief is what I find offensive. Want to wear a poppy, wear a poppy. Don't want to wear the poppy, don't wear it. Better and braver people fought and died to give us the choice..........."

Crikey.

That's a remarkably harsh view in the link.

"Because it is in support of the military."

It isn't. It supports the dependents and those who have been injured in action. I always buy a poppy but don't always remember to wear it.

Our taxes support the military. I guess the only way not to support them is not to be a tax payer.

I am a pacifist and don't support military conflict, but I don't feel that buying a poppy goes against my principles.

"Not really a big ishoo, and good, if you don't wear a poppy (and there's no chance its on your other coat, I can easily mark you down as a bit of a self important twat."

Will you equally mark me down as a self-important twat if I don't happen to wear a pink ribbon on Breast Cancer day (because I happened to make a donation to another charity instead)? Or if I don't wear an Red Cross badge or an Oxfam sticker on the days when collectors for those charities are out and about? Or is it only this one charity that is different?

I don't judge anyone who doesn't make a donation to the Red Cross or Medicins sans Frontieres when I do. And both those charities undeniably make a difference. So why is it only this one charitable appeal that you will get judged if you don't support?

Medecins, even.

Baaaaaaaa, cory, probably. And it's nice and visible, so you get a really good smugness return for your quid. And then it's job done for another year...

Not really directed at you tho, was it lissie more a general fed up ness with the whole angst going on about something that really isn't a difficult positive action to make, or just keep quiet about.