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People feeling under pressure to wear a poppy.

361 replies

schroeder · 06/11/2011 14:29

Yesterday on the bbc news a very interesting conversation about the increasing pressure people feel to wear a poppy seemed about to start, but was cut short. It was something to do with football shirts I think.

I feel this is a conversation that should be had. I work with the public and feel uncomfortable every year when it is expected of me to wear one.

It's not the wearing so much that bothers me, but that in doing so I am supporting a charity I would not support otherwise.
Surely we should not all feel forced to give to this charity whether we like it or not?
I do not think even the British legion woud want poppies to be compulsary?

OP posts:
alexpolismum · 08/11/2011 17:41

I never wore a poppy when I was still resident in the UK. Not because I don't want to remember or honour the dead, I don't need a poppy to do that. I don't wear a poppy in remembrance of my grandfather.

My grandfather was a WWII veteran. He fought and almost died. And he used to tell me that he hated the poppies, as to him it was a symbol of how the government would send you off to war, to death and to be maimed and left disabled or to leave a widow or orphans behind, and then happily wash its hands of you afterwards, as though your sacrifice meant nothing.

I don't expect everyone to share his view, but I still remember how angry he used to get about this issue, and I could not wear a poppy without thinking of it.

WidowWadman · 08/11/2011 19:53

Show us you care - Good Indy article on the topic

DandyDan · 09/11/2011 10:55

There is coercive pressure in schools on children to buy poppies - my kids came home complaining about it: they are basically told to buy a poppy and this year encouraged to buy a "wooden cross-poppy" as well.

These days the poppy is being used to represent those in current wars - "our boys", "our heroes" - so its symbolism is not simple at all, and as others have already mentioned, some WW1 and 2 veterans were unhappy at the poppy anyway.

There should be no moral obligation to wear one and no societal (or primeministerial) pressure to "break the rules" to allow the wearing of one (employee in Superdrug or whichever shop it was, or the English football team). However everything is heading in that direction.

JugglingWithGoldandMyrhh · 09/11/2011 11:35

Whilst I agree with you DandyDan I was thinking this morning that the pressure some might feel to wear a poppy is as nothing compared to the pressure those young men felt in 1914 to go off to fight in the trenches. With "Your country needs you !" posters, and white feathers given to those who hadn't yet signed up.
We do have a good deal of freedom in our actions, that some will say those men fought for.
But in any case, we should use that freedom wisely and thankfully, and make the choices we feel are right for us.
For me that is to remember them in other ways, including talking with my DC's about all these things.

nomiddlename · 09/11/2011 11:43

op I understand exactly what you're saying.

I find the physical wearing of one a bit of annoying in that I don't like pins and don't always have somewhere to put it with what I'm wearing.

That said, as a forces wife, it would look pretty awful if I didn't wear one but you don't have to wear a poppy to be able to remember.#

You certainly don't get people being made to wear pink ribbons for breast cancer etc.

The difference is that the men and women who we remember have given their lives for our country but I do think there is a forced expectation to wear a poppy.

Also, why can't people wear them on poppy day, as they used to, rather than from weeks in advance.

I know the OP and me will be in the minority but I do feel a pressure to wear a poppy and that really isn't the point of them.

DandyDan · 09/11/2011 11:45

Yes, so long as the ways of being wise and thankful aren't obliged to be met by supporting a particular charity and/or wearing their official badge. I'm pretty sure that people who don't wear a poppy do plenty of thinking about freedoms and the pressures and sacrifices of armed conflict.

nomiddlename · 09/11/2011 11:47

Plus, someone who doesn't really care that much about what the poppy represents could still pay a quid for a poppy and wear it, making people assume that they do care.

Someone else, on the other hand, might choose to donate a large sum of money to HFH or the British Legion etc but then not wear a poppy.

Just because someone wears a poppy doesn't mean they do it for the right reasons iyswim.

WhollyGhost · 09/11/2011 11:57

I don't usually wear a poppy (though do donate) but I considered wearing one for a job interview this week. Because not wearing one makes more of a statement.

If I had worn one it would have been for absolutely the wrong reasons.

nomiddlename · 09/11/2011 11:58

whollyghost has hit the nail on the head.

exoticfruits · 09/11/2011 13:47

Mine has gone again. I was determined to pin it securely and it worked BUT I am left with the stalk and the petals have gone! Therefore I am one of those people who happily wears a poppy and contributes, but you could assume that I was making a statement by not wearing it when I have simply lost it!
I think people should just do what they want and not worry about others.

WhatIsPi · 09/11/2011 13:55

Agree with no middle name - I always give a sum of money and then don't wear a poppy as I dislike the compulsion aspect of it.

At Old Street station in the mornings about 20 very loud young army personnel in differing uniforms literally shout at you in your face - I find it actually very frightening. When I was young there was a quiet dignity that reminded you of why it was important to give - I'm sure there still is in lots of places though.

ragged · 09/11/2011 17:25

Is it a political statement for footballers to wear poppies?
Coz I can't see it... :(
I see it as a statement of sadness & of respect for bravery.
Agree that they shouldn't be worn for weeks on end and no compulsion should come into it.
I would say that few people around here wear poppies so I can't relate to this "expectation" stuff.

mayorquimby · 09/11/2011 18:12

It depends. It's so subjective that if I were fifa I'd lay down a blanket rule that you can't alter kits to include symbols which relate to such issues. It may not be viewed as political in England but I'd imagine other FIFA members (Ireland/ Argentina/Afghanistan?) could potentially take offence and it most certainly has political overtones for large portions of those countries populations. While there is no evidence that any of these countries have complained FIFA are probably best off to avoid the issue and lay down a blanket ban. If they allowed this then what if an Irish team did enter the olympics and wanted to wear easter lillies on their kit?
As it is FIFA have sanctioned the wearing of the poppy symbol on the black armbands being worn by the English team, following the minutes silence before the game, after the english players take off their anthem tops which will display the poppy while all substitutes and coaching staff will wear tops displaying the poppy

EdithWeston · 09/11/2011 18:13

FIFA has relented - even the Germans told them they were being silly.

mayorquimby · 09/11/2011 18:27

Well they haven't relented. They have still not accepted Englands request for special permission to temporarily alter their playing strip. A decision I feel they were completely right in standing by.

As for "Even the Germans telling them they were being silly."
the quote from Wolfsgang Niersbach ""The Federation has not heard of, or been involved in, any discussions about poppies and whether England should be allowed to wear them on Saturday.

"I cannot imagine we would have any objection to the idea of England's players having poppies on their shirts. It just wouldn't be a problem to us. It wouldn't be an issue.""
-Yeah take that Blatter. Even the Germans have told you you're being silly by... well.... by not having heard of or being involved in any discussions at all.

Although Chris Simpkins, The Director General of The Royal British Legion has stuck it to Sepp and the rest of FIFA who refuse to support the troops
"There are other ways to honour the poppy than by wearing it on a shirt. The FA has helped us explore every alternative available and we are satisfied that England will enter the competition knowing they have shown proper respect for our Armed Forces."

mayorquimby · 09/11/2011 18:29

Sorry should clarify, Wolfsgang Niersbach is the general secretary of the German FA

mayorquimby · 09/11/2011 22:19

I think "The Fiver" in the Guardian nailed it tbf:

"Anyone lucky enough to have been tripping on acid for the past 48 hours may be unaware that the mother of all stinks has been kicked up over a Fifa rule that forbids England's players from wearing poppies on the grounds that it is a political symbol that could jeopardise "the neutrality of football". Despite having been in place for a long time, it is a rule that has singularly failed to perturb the FA in nine previous Novembers of yore; Novembers, coincidentally, when English football's governing body didn't feel the need to generate spurious controversies because of sour grapes over failed World Cup bids, or to deflect media attention away from a national team captain who'd become embroiled in an embarrassing race row.
"

differentnameforthis · 10/11/2011 21:53

If everyone refused to fight, then there could be no wars

It wasn't, it isn't & won't ever be as simple as 'everyone refusing to fight'. And, imo if you believe that it is you are naive.

There will ALWAYS be one person who wants what he/she shouldn't have. There will always be one person who wants to rule & dictate over others. That person will build an army of like minded (or brainwashed) people who want to fight. Then what? They decide that they want to start terrorising people, but because others have refused to fight, that's it.... They win?

It isn't workable. I'd love to see an end to war, but it will never happen because each generation brings with it people who want to rule & dictate.

Towndon · 10/11/2011 22:17

Exactly differentname.

What else are you meant to do if there's a dictator who wants to take over your country, and everyone in it, with an inhumane regime? Answers on a postcard please...

meditrina · 10/11/2011 22:27

mayorquimby - that article is being economical with the truth. There was no fuss made in previous years because there were no international fixtures on Remembrance weekend.

differentnameforthis · 10/11/2011 23:48

I don't quite understand though why it needs to be such a big event, and why we need to give so much to remember those who died in the wars

Just.....wow!

Betelguese · 11/11/2011 00:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

mayorquimby · 11/11/2011 14:38

what date is rememberance weekend or is it like easter in that it's a always the 1st/2nd weekend after such a date?
Just want to look into the assertion that England have never played a fixture on remembrance weekend

Towndon · 11/11/2011 14:49

Remembrance Sunday is the second Sunday in November, the Sunday nearest to 11 November (Armistice Day).

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