What more could you wish for at Christmas? A visit from Tony Blair!

[Mistletoo]

I'm sure some of the lads will be genuinely chuffed he's gone to visit.

For myself, ...............

homemama, I did say it was a very extreme analogy, and I made it only to illustrate tthe principle.

Normsnockers, pardon me, but how did suicide bombers enter this conversation?

or does opposing TB mean that one should automatically be branded with suicide bombers?

and the place of birth was implied when making the point about those who come from abroad and get citizenship, and speak against the leaders.

Personally, I won't feel a morale boost when dignitaries come visiting. I think they would be a pain, especially when they have been proved wronged, and do not admit it.

whether tony blair is there or not
I think that these lads and girls are doing a brilliant job over there
they deserve our support whether they want to be there or not
as it is their job

and they are doing their best
lets give them some credit ffs
instead of demeaning them

Do you know that serving members in the Armed Forces abroad get less telephone contact time with the folks back home than prisoners in British Jails?

Put that one right first Tone? Eh?

mb, "less telephone contact time with the folks back home than prisoners in British Jails?"

I do not want to comment because of respect for those well-meaning ones who are sent to fight wars which eventually are shown to be for the benefit of politicians or businesses.

They do deserve our support, in bringing them back, and in making sure it doesn't happen again.

So do you think that convicted criminals deserve more contact thatn members of the armed forces then?

All right, what about the Belmarsh prisoners?

How much telephone contact time was given to them?

and they wern't even charged, let alone convicted.

indeed homemama - and I wholeheartedly support all out lads out there, as I'm sure you know

TBH, I simply don't know. But are you honestly saying that you think that murdereres and rapists, racists and thieves deserve more contact time than the armed forces? If so , shame on you.

Re belmash, two wrongs don't make a right you know!

hear, hear mb.

incidentally my thread was really about saying maybe Father Christmas might have been a more welcome visitor - but I know how these thread digress

Misletoo, quite!

Dh was visited by John Major and said that the guy was surprisingly nice (in spite of DH being a liberal!).

re the prison and phonecall issue

people on remand do not get anymore phone time than convicted criminals
people on remand are suspected criminals
isnt that the same for belmarsh detainees- arent they suspected terrorists
IMO think it is disgusting how servicemen and women are entitled to less

In gulf war 1 the American service personel got danger money when the war started. In the UK service personel got less!

They still had to pay the poll tax, unless they were there for 6 months and one day. If they were killed in service at 5 months and 30 days their family would have been sent a bill for the poll tax.

I kid you not.

Message withdrawn

mb: "are you honestly saying that you think that murdereres and rapists, racists and thieves deserve more contact time than the armed forces?"

no, I am not saying so. I think in these days of the videophone, the mobile and the net, communication should not have been a problem.

Restricting the rights of convicted criminals is all right.

doormat, how much time would you set for remand? or is it unlimited?

All it took was for the Home Secretary to decide that the detainees are a danger to Bristish Society, and that was that. Detention without trial for ever and ever!

Was that Justice? Was that fair? Was that British?

bet they'd rather have had Girls Aloud

Normsnockers: "I saw a spokesperson of some group or other saying that the killing of innocent Londoners was understandable."

I guess there are nuts everywhere. Muslims do not think taking innocent lives is understandable. The Quran says that taking one life without valid cause is like murdering the whole of humanity.

They are not allowed to have mobiles for security reasons. In addition they would be prohibitivly expensive when phoning out of the UK, and service personel are not always well paid.

Computers only work if you are in estabilshed areas, and this is often not the caes for the army. Also home may not have/be able to afford a computer. In addition children like to talk to their parents, not read an email

Vidiophone. You are having a laugh? Even dh, the ubernerd doesn't have this

I can tell you have limited experience of the situation we are talking about. Sadly, I do not.

mb, I don't think it should be about pay and allowances.

You pay me a mountain of gold for killing just one person, and I won't do it.

You pay me another mountain for dropping a bomb in an inhabited area, and I won't do it.

Well, good for you.

peacedove people can be on remand for over 12 months
depends on the cps I suppose, to see if they have enough evidence

as for fairness and justice
no it isnt fair
but life is not fair

Peacedove, imagine you see a man with his hand on a button, about to blow up a mosque. You have a gun, what do you do?

mb is your dh on leave this xmas

doormat: "peacedove people can be on remand for over 12 months
depends on the cps I suppose, to see if they have enough evidence

as for fairness and justice
no it isnt fair
but life is not fair"

12 months! I didn't know that. I wouldn't have thought so, but if so, at least remand is with judicial approval, regular reviews for extention in period of remand.

mb: "Peacedove, imagine you see a man with his hand on a button, about to blow up a mosque. You have a gun, what do you do?"

I have yet to come across one genuine case where there was such an instance of killing. These are scenarios described to frighten us into giving away our freedoms.

In Iraq, the recent visit of TB to which this thread is all about, there wasn't a man with a bomb ready to blow up a place of worship. It was an invasion, of civilian targets.

And I cannot forget the images of the shelters and hospitals bombed by the US and its allies

Peacedove NB I said imagine

So , imagine, what do you do?

Imagine you were in a bombing crew over Peenemunde (sp? ) during ww2. You can drop your bombs and help to prevent the V2 rockets hiting London, but you might kill civilians, some of which might be slave labour, what do you do?

Life is seldom so black and white as you paint it

mb - i can imagine very well what i'd do and peacedove wouldn't like it i'm afraid. but in protection of my children i would kill anyone. it's my job isn't it? to protect them against the world and if there is some fruit loop threatening their lives i'm going to do everything in my power to take theirs first.
I am generally a peaceful human being and i don't agree with the iraq thing at all, imho it was, and still is, wrong. but now the troops are in there they have to stay and see it through to the end don't they or they'd leave one hell of a mess behind and that'd be worse than them staying a bit longer to try to help sort out what they started.
As for the london bombings, that wasn't about religion. it was about power. it was the loons out there saying "look! we can get you whenever we want". but we can't live in fear of that, we have to fight back don't we? if we don't we lose our freedom, our right to be us and our right to have our own beliefs and i'm damned sure i'll not give up my rights without a fight.

peacedove - i love you. you are what the world should be full of. but sadly it's not. there are people out there who crave power and for that reason they will take what isn't theirs and kill the innocent. i truly wish with all my heart that one day we can have that world that you want.