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Dale Farm et al

361 replies

AnneWiddecomesArse · 05/09/2011 22:51

A continuation...

OP posts:
WhollyGhost · 16/09/2011 09:19

Channel 4 news made it clear that this is not the first, second or third time they've found slaves at Traveller camps in the past few months. It is just that the other cases did not make the headlines (though they were covered in local papers). So what is different is the coverage given - and that could be a result of the Dale farm media campaign and the reality tv shows.

OldLadyKnowsNothing · 16/09/2011 12:28

Doesn't emotional trauma count at all then?

butterscotch · 16/09/2011 13:00

you know what Math, I wouldn't get involved because I've seen the nasty side of the travellers and I'd hate for what might happen to me when i have two young children with me, so I choose not to put me or my children at risk.

Agreed there are drunks who behave like this, I think the NHS stuff queue jump them because of the threats and because if they leave them too long they may walk out with out being seen and the concerns over the welfare of the children. So its not right its not like a A&E where you are seen on a rota basis but priority being highest priority.

Security were called and waiting by reception until they were seen and gone, however by calling security are they not being treated differently..

BTW the slavery stuff there was stuff in the local papers about this at Dale Farm and other local traveller sites at least 3 yrs ago... I suspect any off Dale Farm would have already been removed due to the controversy over the latest on the eviction....

Have you seen this as well:
dalefarm.wordpress.com/
Paddy calling for supporters to come forward.............

I spoke to a mate in the met this morning, who has a mate in the local police - she said they are preparing for lots of trouble by anachists........god help what things will be like Monday ;-(

mathanxiety · 16/09/2011 15:59

It really is not just as bad to not pay tax or fulfill the other duties of an employer. Accusing people of keeping slaves (with lurid details such as dog kennels, beatings and starvation) is a lot worse than not paying taxes, etc. When you accuse people of keeping slaves you put them beyond the pale and paint a picture of people who have absolutely nothing in common with the rest of humanity.

Emotional trauma counts, but it doesn't pack the punch in a headline that 'SLAVERY/STARVATION/BEATINGS' does.

Yes, there have been several other cases where raids have netted workers whose tax has not been paid, and charges have been brought, none of which has resulted in a guilty verdict yet.

Yes, by calling security they are being treated differently, and this does not matter because the running of the clinic and the safety of the staff cannot be jeopardised for the sake of all the other patients. To refuse to call security just because this would amount to different treatment would be akin to refusing to call police for the rioters. Security personnel are there because some people and situations warrant it.

From the C4 report (featuring rather scurrilous and dodgy editorial values btw), right at the end -- 'It is only now with the change in the law that they [police] have been able to act'. I presume this is a reference to the inclusion of emotional trauma as a reason to involve police in the phenomenon of people who have possibly not worked a day in their whole lives suddenly finding themselves working all day? I find it surprising, and maybe some of the men themselves find it surprising, that some of them now seem to have relatives and various social service agencies willing to take notice of them, after they have been allegedly off the radar and forgotten for several years. There have been no reference to missing persons reports filed on behalf of these men over the years. C4 made nothing clear really, except that there is no longer any presumption of innocence until proven guilty and the media can say anything they want about Travellers. Funny to hear the report talking of people who might otherwise be described in terms analogous to wastrel or nuisance categorised in the report as 'vulnerable', roses born to blush unseen, etc.

According to the local Basildon press, police have heard allegations about slavery or people being held against their wishes at Dale Farm for years and have decided that the neighbours were crying wolf.

mankyminks · 19/09/2011 13:33

..... Why are we waiting?? Get in,get them out,be done with it. They've had 10 years to pack which should be sufficient. You've played the game,you lost,preserve some of your dignity,hold your heads high and go. Unless someone can give me a reason why the settled community can't possibly live without them as they are such an asset to them.

They are full of demands,rights and overflowing with a feeling of entitlement. But what have they EVER given to the community they demand sympathy from??

Teachermumof3 · 19/09/2011 17:56

Ahhhh-delayed again!!

mankyminks · 19/09/2011 19:49

VERY frustrating!! For all concerned. Some judge fancied his name in the papers obviously.... They should have gone in at the crack of dawn. Biggest gloaters were the so called protesters!! What a bunch of absolute idiots. Hope they've lost the key to the bike locks that mindless bloke and the silly little girl have round their necks so they can stay there 'till Friday. What's with all the mamby pamby-ing reading out health and safety rules and then retreating? Hows about,you're times up,pack your gear and get your sorry little arses out of here!!

cookcleanerchaufferetc · 19/09/2011 19:52

There are a lot of wanker lawyers out there making huge sums of money whilst costing this government ridiculous amounts in police costs, lost taxes and so on.

And the judge who made this pathetic decsion should be struck off.

Teachermumof3 · 19/09/2011 20:48

And the judge who made this pathetic decsion should be struck off.

Absolutely-what exactly is he trying to acheive!?

mathanxiety · 19/09/2011 22:06

Let's get the pitchforks out.

This spectacle of all this impotent fury is priceless.

YouWinOrYouDie · 19/09/2011 22:27

It isn't priceless, mathanxiety.

All this is costing.

I live in Basildon and services have been cut for disabled people and children in many ways. I only know about the things which affect me and my family and they are bad enough.

Presumably social services and NHS support to elderly people has been affected too. My own mother is now quite severely mentally impaired with dementia but it will take five months until she can visit a consultant and SS will not even assess her at present.

I don't think that the council tax that I pay and the council tax that my pensioner parents pay will remain unaffected.

mankyminks · 19/09/2011 22:32

Why Mathanxiety,why is is funny? It can't be easy for the 'Travellers' either.One minute you think you're gonna go back to your roots and travel and the next you are forced to 'settle' for a few more days. Just don't understand what made this judge decide to do what he did. Not much known about his reasons. I just feel for the settled community who were looking forward to some peace and a return of civilisation. Patience tested to the limit I think.

mathanxiety · 19/09/2011 22:33

Basildon DC has the option of coming to some sort of sane agreement here and they have had that option for at least two years. They most recently had the option of allowing a UN negotiator no less try to work out some sort of sane agreement, but that offer has been turned down by the government.

Nobody has put a gun to the head of Tony Ball and forced him to do any of what he has chosen to do with the money of the taxpayers of Essex. If services have been cut for anyone because Tony Ball has decided he is going to make some kind of point or because his ego can't accept the fact that this is not his money to spend and this is not about his ego, then shame on him. Next time there's an election I hope the voters will remember the huge favour Ball has done everyone.

mathanxiety · 19/09/2011 22:37

Travelling season is over, Manky. School is back.

The judge apparently thought civilisation should prevail too.

'There are a lot of wanker lawyers out there making huge sums of money whilst costing this government ridiculous amounts in police costs, lost taxes and so on.' Funnier even than the apoplexy here, there were no wanker lawyers involved in the pleading for this injunction. The Travellers represented themselves in the courts.

mankyminks · 19/09/2011 22:40

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by Mumsnet.

mathanxiety · 19/09/2011 22:43

Painting with a broad brush there, Manky?

mankyminks · 19/09/2011 22:44

Have you checked the attendance levels lately Math,of the schools where the travellers children 'enjoy' education? Seem ever so slightly out of sink with the 'travelling' season. When is the 'Travelling Season' anyway?Once every decade?

mankyminks · 19/09/2011 22:45

Still don't know what the contribution of Travellers to Society is math.Please enlighten me.

mathanxiety · 19/09/2011 22:50

Why don't you replace the word Traveller with some other ethnic group, or 'people with disabilities', or 'the very old and infirm', and see how far that gets you, Manky?

FYI, a lot of Travellers spend summers on the road.

mankyminks · 19/09/2011 22:57

Why do I have to replace the word traveller with some other ethnic group or 'people with disabilities' or the 'very old and infirm' Math? This isn't about any of these groups is it. It IS about travellers isn't it? Still very curious about the contribution of travellers to society math,why won't you tell me? I spend a lot of time on the road in the Summer Math,can I build a house for my in laws in my garden now please?

mankyminks · 19/09/2011 22:58

Ps I live in a Conservation Area,would that be a problem?

mankyminks · 19/09/2011 23:04

Run out of answers Math?

mathanxiety · 20/09/2011 02:02

Racism sure is one ugly sight to behold.

What has the contribution of any particular group to society to do with its human rights? They contribute just by their existence.

mankyminks · 20/09/2011 08:51

Math,this is so not about racism. Are you saying anyone would be able to stay on the illegal site as long as they are not travellers? Because THAT would be racism and racism is ugly I agree. Are you saying if any other group of people/individual would have stayed on the illegally developed site they would have been allowed to stay?? Since when does any human have the right to just settle wherever they want? Their human right is to be housed and not be left on the street. They have been offered numerous alternatives but they have refused them all on the grounds that these options are culturally unsuitable. That's THEIR choice. If they are left homeless or on the streets than that's THEIR decision,so they will have to put up with the consequences of that decision. They are NOT contributing to society by their existence. There is no contribution at all. Feel free to correct me.