Where will they go?

[WonkyDonkeys]

In this article about the Nottingham riots (specifically about an 11yo girl being charged, but that's a whole other thread), it says:

"The city council has also said it will seek to evict any council tenants found to have taken part in the trouble."

So... they will be out on the street then?!

Not sure this is the right approach...

Cognito, I didn't blame the bankers for everything. Don'T be so silly.

I said that it was abso-fuckin-lutely ridiculous that bankers were being subsidized by taxes, complete with bonuses. For being shit at their jobs. I'm just calling them the scroungers that they are. Not blaming them for everything . Big difference.

So if a man has been involved in looting, and he has a wife and children and home, the wife and children get evicted too?

If families have a multi-generational place with grandparents they are out too?

Toddlers and babies?

I don't understand what this is supposed to achieve.

Edith you keep making the point that this rule is "sex blind" but the fact is that most crime in committed by men. So the situation where this rule will be invoked will normally be to evict women and children on the basis of something their male relative has done. A rule is not sex blind if it disproportionately penalises one sex in this way.

Incidentally people are saying that these people will go into temporary accomodation. Surely not, as this will be more expensive than just leaving them in their home in the first place? Has anyone seen it confirmed that these people will be offered alternative accomodation? I assumed that they wouldn't.

Poor,lazy parenting MilaMae ?
Then ask me, why is that males of all social backgrounds, with all types of parents are far more likely to commit crimes than females.

They've got the same parents.

Are you seriously suggesting that one parent raises her girls well and her boys badly?

YOur argument doesn't make sense. You'll have to explain why mothers of boys are, by default, worse parents than mothers of girls.

"If it was private housing they'd be evicted pronto"

Nonsense. I let a flat out. I would have no idea if my tenant was involved in looting. No idea at all. He definitely wouldn't be evicted.

Exactly, Sardine. This rule is not sex-blind, when it's mainly males committing the crimes and the "parent" (translation: mother) is the one who pays for it, and the father gets away with everything, coz he abandoned his son years ago

whoever made up this rule about evicting families either knew it would disproportionately affect women (who are the innocent parties) or they were ignorant of this, and therefore should be sacked

Sardine errr I think you would.Their faces are everywhere at the moment.I'm sure you do checks,I would certainly do police checks if I was a landlord.

If my dp lost his job he wouldn't be able to pay rent or a mortgage so we'd be homeless.

Sakura you're talking total cobblers.

Are you going to answer my question Mila? Or just going to resort to personal attacks because you can't?

When you said this is down to lazy parenting, as I said, you'll have to explain why mothers of boys are, by default, worse parents than mothers of girls.

It's a very old fashioned thing really, that the men of the family are the heads of the family. And it is up to them to provide for and protect their family. And if they are bad'uns the women and children are punished also.

It doesn't see women and children as people in their own right, with their own personalities and morality and actions. But simply as adjuncts to the man. The man is bad, him and his adjuncts are treated the same, all are punished.

It's been like that for a long time in many places, and is the effect here. the women and children as chattels, the man as the person.

People will don their "loony feminist" replies here but this is the effect of this law. Women and children are being punished for the actions of the menfolk.

Why don't they just evict the criminals from the homes I wonder? And leave the non criminals to get on with their lives.

So anyone living with their parents in a owned house doesn't have to think about they consequences of their crime?

Only people in rented accommodation? who are not all on benefits believe it or not

Because we all know that only people in rented accommodation are lazy/bad parents

You don't do police checks when you are a landlord! Landlords don't have access to that type of highly sensitive information!

Landlords do credit checks and also referencing from previous landlords/work.

You are talking nonsense. Of course I wouldn't know if my tenant was involved. I'm not sitting here studying the pictures of looters, I have better things to do with my time.

THat was brilliant, Sardine. THat is exactly what this is. Bloody conservatives.
The women are the add-ons to the male in the home. Looks like even sons are regarded as "Heads of households" . It is mainly males who are committing the crimes, and if they continue to evict families, it is going to be mainly innocent females who are punished for it.
And someone upthread said this was not gendered!!!

I also don't understand why there is this talk of people losing jobs.

If you were a police officer or something then sure. Or were unfortunate enough to be spotted on the telly.

If I worked in an office and got a non-custodial sentence I wouldn't imagine I#d lose my job over it. They don't tell your employers when you go to magistrates court you know.

cogito, you said: "Eviction has always been a sanction open to councils for breach of contract."

Fair enough, but how is it in breach of contract as would think any breach of contract would be in regards to that tenancy agreement, or rather the anti social behavior would be inferred as directly affecting the property/neighbors/peaceful enjoyment.

"mothers of boys are worse parents than mothers of girls" how dare you?

Aside from having buggar all to do with the op some of us are mothers to both.The way you talk mothers of sons should be ashamed.I'm proud of my boys thanks very much,they're bloody good lads and I've raised them exactly the same way as I do my daughter who is also well behaved ie I set boundaries,follow through and don't sit on my backside and deny all knowledge if they do wrong.

Fact women commit crimes too.

Fact plenty of women were filmed rioting too.

Fact a mother raises her children in exactly the same way ie if she lets her daughter bully kids at softplay she'll let her son do it too.If she lets her 7 year old son have whatever he wants she'll let her daughter have the same too.If she lets her daughter flounce school rules and disrespect teachers she'll let her son do it too.

Sorry you choose to raise your boys and girls badly you need to take the consequences society certainly has to.

David Cameron is making this up. You can't throw someone out of their council house because they've got a criminal record. IT's against the law.
And you certainly can't throw that person's mother out.

Your facts are wrong Mila. The BBC data shows that 95% of the rioters who were arrested were male. The females who were arrested were given harsh punishments, as they always are (6 months for stealing chewing gum one woman got. Your average rapist gets less about that. Men get on average 4 years for murdering their wife, in the UK)

The Daily Fail chose to ignore these statistics and called the chewing gum lady "THe modern face of the rioters"

Lies. LIes. Lies. and more patriarchal reversals and Lies.

Males of all walks of life, of all backgrounds commit far more crimes than females.
So I ask you again. What is it about having a son that makes a woman more of a "lazy parent" than a woman who has only daughters?

Computer workers dealing with data involving security risk financial or otherwise,those working with children in schools,nurseries,police,anybody handling money or in a position of trust all would loose their jobs as we're talking about violence and theft and considering those being convicted are all being shamed in local papers one suspects the vast majority would be at risk of loosing their jobs.

Sardine not every landlord is the same as you.Many will live in the same community and read the local papers.If I was a landlord and found out my tenant would be out pronto. There is no way I'd trust financial matters or the care of my building to somebody who thinks it's ok to trash property and steal.

You got your answer Sakura read it.

Sooo the only woman caught rioting was chewing gum.

Those that set fire or stole from other peoples houses and businesses had no respect for other peoples properties and homes yet are now going to state their "human rights" that their families should not suffer be it by being evicted or being imprisoned.

If this 18 year old did break the law then harsh punishment is needed to ensure he learns from this and doesnt do it again. If that means he gets evicted for his part in the riots then thats a chance he took. Its nothing to do with him being male, it was about knowing right from wrong and being brought up to be a decent human being.

I'm amazed how many children and teens were out at night taking part, surely as a good parent you'd keep your child home safe knowing the riots were going on.

Oh and Mila,
this is not personal. You don'T need to say "How dare you" when I talk about mothers of boys and then go on to give your personal account of how "some of us are mothers of both"

I too, am a mother of both.

I keep saying it is sex blind because it is. All households with this clause are equally bound, regardless of sex of the offender or sexes in the rest of the household.

If you want to call for this provision to be abolished, then it is also abolishing any ability to evict nightmare neighbours. I do not think that would be helpful.

Mila,
Can you quote where I said the only woman caught rioting was chewing gum?
You're using an oft-used tactic on here which is to completely misquote a person's words, when you don't know how to respond to their argument.

think you'll find I said 95% of the rioters arrested were men, and a woman was given a disproportionately severe punishment for stealing gum--about the same amount of jail time as a rapist gets, and not much less than your average male wife-murderer gets

but go ahead and keep misquoting me

Sakura given the arrests have only just started I think you're a little presumptuous to band percentages and clear all women rioters of wrong doing.

I don't even believe this "provision" is legal, Edith.

IF it dispropotionately affects women, who are already far more vulnerable and powerless than men, and if women are being held accountable for men's crimes, then this is a case for the Equality Comission. The commission is there for a reason, it's to protect women from men's laws, which are invented by and for men, and for where women just get caught up in the cross-fire.