Depraved or deprived: What lies behind these riots, and why aren't they happening in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland?

[Solopower]

I've been reading the threads on the riots and I wondered if we needed one on the causes.

People's ideas seem to range from thinking the rioters are just opportunistic criminals to socially and culturally disadvantaged youngsters.

But why isn't there any rioting in Scotland, for example, where there are pockets of extreme social deprivation?

Zoe Williams' article on the psychology of looting is worth reading, imo:
www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/aug/09/uk-riots-psychology-of-looting?CMP=twt_gu

solopower you just did apologise for them... 'if criminality exists' so if you were raped then you think that the justice system should look for some excuse for that...were you wearing a short skirt so thats an excuse for a bloke raping you????

i heard a rioter on radio 5 live today.. he actually said that they are doing this because the police arnt there..thats the reason... he said so.... we dont need to over analyze this....

sorry racial motives my arse!!!!! insult to all my law abiding black and asian friends.... and anti police.. do me a favour... bollocks..

the black community is loosing literally dozens of youngsters to gang violence evey year,, they arnt being shot by the met police..

my teens are regually stopped and searched in birmingham where we live... great, have no problem with that, if they stop one teen with a gun or knife it could save the life of another kid.... if you are innocent then what the problem..

solopower.. please tell me where do you live???

There are many factors, it is complicated yes. You have a point. But why couldn't people see that Brown's slower cuts would have been more stabilising?

I was brought up in England, but have lived in Scotland for the last 14 years. I can't put my finger on the specifics but I do sense more community up here.

I would be outraged if anyone suggested that is because there are less ethnic minorities here. I lived in Edinburgh as a student (in not exactly a poor area, but not wealthy either) and there were a high number of Asian families. My dh works for the council in Glasgow, there are a very high number of Asian families there.

make me laugh.. me and dh work full time... me 8 till 6 every day.. dh usually 8 till 10 as a contractor.. 2 dcs at uni currently home for holidays but both working full time to pay for tuition fees.. our last family holiday was 3 years ago...

.( you scotts hum now and cover your ears as these dont affect you .. seems we english are subsidising your kids to get an education.. lovely)

dd is 12 and has a paper round for the whole of the school hols as we belive in the work ethic and pocket money earned....

what a twat I sound.... but still aye.. letys all understand the robbing low life bastards who riot and ignore people like us... easier that way isnt...

there was a bit of trouble in belfast on monday night but that was to be expected as it was the internment bonfires nothing really to do with whats happening in england.

addressbook... there are no factors and its not complicated at all... you either bring your kids up right or you dont end of.... dont dare spout class, religion or colour.. thats just insulting to the working classes... asians and blacks..and to make political points is disgusting.... working class poeple haver lost everything in many areas... and didnt gordon brown accuse an old woman of racism and the crawl in an abismally awful way to her....... god help us if the best help here is gordon or Ed... and I am a labour party member... despair sets in...

thebody, give it up about scots being subsidised by england, will you? your govt is lying to us on that, the numbers don't stack up.

I was making a political point but in no way did I insult working classes or ethnic minorities in doing so.

My point was against the covert racists who would claim that scotland has more community because there are less ethnic minorities (that has been said to me).

The reason Scotland hasn't seen the violence is because Scotland is a different country; it is not because Scotland doesn't have the same issues. We view the riots in London as not that different from riots in Paris. There is no kinship between Londoners and Glaswegians, unlike the relationship between London and Manchester or Birmingham.

We Scots shouldn't be smug. This has zero to do with voting preference or community spirit.

And, yes, the weather is a very big factor as people have said. We've hardly had weeks of hot urban summer nights exacerbating tensions.

Well said Aitch.
The Body - Let's not turn this very interesting thread into a Scots vs English debate. Tired old argument anyhoo.

Just re-read my post and wanted to clarify: there's not 'no kinship' between London and Glasgow, but the relationship isn't close.

this man Tariq Jahan is stunning, i think. he could swing the whole thing. terrible, terrible that he lost his child.

Oh, God, please don't make this an England/Scotland debate. That's exactly the kind of racial division that might make worse the events of the last few days.

"( you scotts hum now and cover your ears as these dont affect you .. seems we english are subsidising your kids to get an education.. lovely)"

Its Scots with 1 T actually, and you are talking bigoted rubbish spouted by the Daily Mail. The devolved Scottish governement decide to spent some of their budget on education - the right wing Tory government dont in England.

Shame its been a fascinating thread up until now and thanks everyone for all your thoughts, its been interesting. But there had to be 1.

'this has zero to do with voting preference' really?

I am English by the way. I married a scotsman. I am not smug but I am pretty sure that one of the reasons for the swing to SNP, was scottish voters (who generally have no affinity with the Tory government) do not want to be represented by Cameron and his Eton, elitist cronies. I do not know about the desire for independence (I am not for it) but I am sure it would be partly driven by not wanting anything to do with a right wing government they didn't vote for, never have and never would

Criminals definitely exist. But I don't see how 'criminality' can just appear out of thin air - do you? If someone steals something s/he is greedy/hungry/angry/defiant/whatever - there could be all sorts of reasons, not excuses! You need to know why they did it in order to know how to punish them and/or stop them doing it again, imo.

The problem is that there are so many different reasons, and none of them are easy to address.

I agree that the violence we have seen on our streets is inexcusable, and I feel terribly sorry for the people whose lives have been destroyed - of course I do!

Anyone remember the film Fight Club?

Described by David Fincher 'the violence is a metaphor for the conflict between a generation of young people and the value system of advertising'

Sorry, that last post was to Thebody.

A man from the local environment where the Tottenham riots began talks about the causes and context behind the London riots:

I obviously can't speak for everyone in Scotland, but over the last few days many of the FB statuses I have seen have been along the lines of "Proud to be Scottish- we don't smash up our own communities" and various comments like "To anyone thinking about kicking it off up here- the last time someone tried to terrorise Glasgow they were punched to the ground. WHILE ON FIRE. Just sayin'" There is a real pride in Scotland. I think it is like the way we kind of look down on English football hooligans, and assert that WE wouldn't behave like that. I think there is a bigger sense of community, and that people are far more likely to oppose anything like that, and in numbers.

We have a real racial mix in Glasgow, and occasionally there seem to be gang scuffles, but I think the general populus would be outraged and would react with swift action if such a thing happened here, as it would be seen to reflect badly on our city/ country.

I really hope I am right, and that the madness doesn't spread up here. I can imagine old grannies out on the street bashing looters with walking sticks while shouting obscenities if it did!

"'this has zero to do with voting preference' really?

I am English by the way. I married a scotsman. I am not smug but I am pretty sure that one of the reasons for the swing to SNP, was scottish voters (who generally have no affinity with the Tory government) do not want to be represented by Cameron and his Eton, elitist cronies. I do not know about the desire for independence (I am not for it) but I am sure it would be partly driven by not wanting anything to do with a right wing government they didn't vote for, never have and never would"

addressbook - the above is your agenda, and not to do with the OP.

Lemon, I think it might have something to do with it (even indirectly), because some of the commentators on the radio, TV etc are saying that if people don't feel represented by their government, then how can they get their voices heard? (Still not condoning the violence, Thebody!)

What I mean is that people might feel that as they didn't vote for the government in England, it doesn't represent them. (I can't remember the figures, but it wasn't a majority that voted Conservative).