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News

Enfield riots?

916 replies

Empusa · 07/08/2011 18:21

Just seen on Twitter and in a few articles like this, that there are meant to be plans for a riot in Enfield tonight and riot police are in the town centre?

Used to live there, and got family there (luckily a fair distance from the centre), but fucking hell! What the hell is going on?

OP posts:
teejwood · 09/08/2011 17:06

hussy one of the rioters said she was "getting back her taxes" indicating that she paid them and so was actually a person with a job so i fear it is not quite so clear cut as that.

but in response to the rest of your post and what kamara said above, imho i actually think everyone arrested for destruction and theft should have to help rebuild the buildings and communities they have tried to destroy. some may learn new skills on the way, potentially helping to lift them out of the dead-end path they are on.

it's not a cure-all or a quick fix but again imho it could be a little "win" that helps us re-create a society we would all want.

Kri yes a few of us have been saying personal responsibility should apply to everyone - not just the rioters.

marriedinwhite · 09/08/2011 17:12

Let's get this thread back on track and stop arguing amongst ourselves. Little touch of "reality" from leafy Putney here. It is very very quiet on the streets - very few are out and about and people are either looking nervous or acting with camaraderie. There is an eerie quietness around. I have heard that many shopping centres have closed: Centre Court in Wimbledon, Putney Exchange, Southside in Wandsworth.

I have been brave this afternoon and have been up to Sloane Square on the tube and home on the bus - very quiet - very few peole about for an afternoon in August - barely a tourist in sight. There are a lot of police about, the Kings Road was very quiet - in Peter Jones and M&S the staff were standing around. There are security guards outside most shops. Community Liaison officers are speaking quietly to the security people at the tube stations and outside the shops. My 16 year old son is at a friend's in Wimbledon (shops have closed in Wimbledon Village!!!!) - he is under instruction that he is not to travel home alone - he will be collected. My daughter has not been allowed out today. I have sent my husband a message to say if he is late home from the City he is to get a cab - he won't and I will worry.

This is the impact in privileged and wealthy London and I feel guilty that here, relatively, we are all safe yet still the tension is palpable. What it must be like a mile a way in every direction I dread to think.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 09/08/2011 17:17

Birdland. I am allowed to object to being referred to as a Daily Mail reader without you accusing me of "sniffing on". How patronising. Wind your neck in.

CustardCake · 09/08/2011 17:20

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

teejwood · 09/08/2011 17:23

this is a great piece - a shopkeeper's take on yesterday's events.

MirandaGoshawk · 09/08/2011 17:23

Marriedinwhite thanks for your post. I am Shock that central London is deserted. I can't imagine it.

KRIKRI · 09/08/2011 17:25

Hey, I read the Daily Mail every day, on line at least, and the Guardian and a whole range of news sources. It is possible to read something with a critical eye, but of course there are those who will swallow what they are spoon fed by the mainstream, particularly the tabloid media. Ho Hum.

I can understand why folks are tempted to call it "mindless thuggery" or insist they are "just plain criminals," in hopes that by labelling and "banishing" them, the problem will go away. It won't. And, they weren't born as fully formed greedy, violent monsters. It's also tempting to write it off as the parents' fault, but surely parents here know that at you can't control everything that influences a child 24/7 and have less control as they get older.

No, I don't think the rioters and looters were "politically motivated" in the way most of us would think. They aren't affiliated to a political party or movement, but there is a political context to the violent acts they are carrying out, which is slightly different.

The truth that's hardest to swallow is that not only are they having an impact on our communities, on our society, but they are actually part of our communities, our societies, no matter how much we detest what they are doing. Going for the lock-them-up-and-throw-away-the-key approach will get one tranche of them off the street, but if we don't take a hard look at the wider context of what's happening, I suspect there will be yet another crop of young people prepared to do the same next time round.

Xenia · 09/08/2011 17:28

Anyone in London who has seen them can help identify them

www.zavilia.com/

Birdland · 09/08/2011 17:31

You are taking all this v personally fanjo- people disagree, people accuse others of talking 'hippy twaddle', being daily mail readers etc etc. Its a forum ffs. Talk of flaming is just being used here as an attempt to shut people up who disagree with you.

However married is right, this thread is losing track so maybe best to agree to disagree

merrymouse · 09/08/2011 17:33

I can't speak for the whole of England or even the whole of London, but I do know that many of these riots occurred in areas where there are jobs. Maybe not exciting or well paid jobs, but jobs. I think a possible cause of unrest is that there aren't really any respectable unskilled jobs any more. Real men build ships/go down mines/work at the docks, they don't clean toilets.

If you can't engage with education, don't have the skills to work in the entertainment industry or sport, and have a completely unrealistic ideas of what normal life should look like and want to be the alpha male in the herd, what do you do? Turn to crime.

noddyholder · 09/08/2011 17:35

There is a real sense though amongst some of these people that a normal boring life with an average job and salary is just not 'worth' anything because they are impressed by Jay Z and co and the lifestyle that comes with huge wealth. Anything less is just not an option to them.

teejwood · 09/08/2011 17:39

another thought. i'd do peckham loveboards in every neighbourhood and get all of them to post about the positive things in their lives. it may be just looking up at a blue sky once in a while. but it'd be a start.
after all, you may not be able to change your material position quickly and easily but changing your perspective is free.

Goldenbear · 09/08/2011 17:43

BulletWithaName, my Dad is fine and it probably could've been avoidable in some peoples' minds as he got punched for intervening. He tried to stop a window being smashed. He was talking to the shopkeeper today, that was their livlihood, they put their children through university with the income from the shop.

This is not textbook political protest but the reasons behind the moral deprivation have to be looked at. However, it is not as simple as you are either in the bleeding heart liberal corner or the Daily mail corner. My dad is 66 got punched, followed and was threatened with revenge. IMO you can't just say, 'that's ashame but lets focus on the broader social issues to hand!'

merrymouse · 09/08/2011 17:44

My idea is to pipe Radio 4 very loudly into all potential troublespots. It's kill or cure.

teejwood · 09/08/2011 17:47

noddy at least musicians create something to earn their ££ though - i have to confess serious prejudice against reality z-lebs .
and footballers are stupidly overpaid - disproportionate to the amount of time they actually spend "working".
as are some bankers - totally out of balance with the wealth they actually create
and philip green's tax avoidance annoys me
actually, tax avoidance by lots of seriously rich people annoys me

BulletWithAName · 09/08/2011 17:48

No of course not, Goldenbear and I have full respect for your father for actually trying to do something to help. Glad to hear he is okay though! Smile

teejwood · 09/08/2011 17:49

goldenbear glad your dad's OK Smile

teejwood · 09/08/2011 17:50

merry surely it should be something like smoothfm to lull them into a stupor with slow ballads?

architien · 09/08/2011 17:59

I think your Dad is a hero Golden.

dubaipieeye · 09/08/2011 18:02

I keep thinking back to to a recent interview with the rapper Plan B. He was retelling a story of a friend who had recently given a girl a blackberry at a party (to impress her). She subsequently sold it and when he (the guy who gave it to her) found out he demanded the money back. She didn't have the money so the guy made her go round all local takeaways/shops giving blow jobs until she earned enough money to repay him. She wasn't a prostitute, just a young girl, who seemed to think this reasonable enough. Plan B kept stressing that this was normal - the type of story you'd hear all the time if you were young, poor and living in our cities. Young people so very, very, very far away from our "normal" morals. Criminality can't be excused but I don't think many of these kids will have ever had morals to turn their back on in the first place. Deeply sad.

noddyholder · 09/08/2011 18:03

I agree teej Dp is a musician Grin but these people want to bypass the actual work/talent and go straight to the wealth!

noddyholder · 09/08/2011 18:06

Golden bear that is so sad No respect for elders is one of my real bug bears I cringe inside when I see young people and adults for that matter being disrespectful to old people.

mathanxiety · 09/08/2011 18:06

I think there has always been a robust anti-establishment element in British society that lives to fight and wreak havoc, and it occasionally rears its head. Nothing more complicated than that and I don't think it's necessary to go into complex explanations of political disaffection. It's hooliganism, the reveling in lawlessness..

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 09/08/2011 18:10

Birdland -glad you know how I am using my words better than I myself do, thanks for that Hmm

TandB · 09/08/2011 18:25

Well I apparently have a looter in court tomorrow. Perhaps I should ask if she was motivated by a sense of disenfranchisement or whether she just really, really wanted those trainers.