Tottenham rioting

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has anyone heard? seems to be all over Twitter but not on other media
apparently police cars burning

@ no different to Hackney. Hackney is also shithole. The happiest day of my MIL's life was when she got a council swap out of there.

Very good question TanyaBranning - the stop on Thursday was by Operation Trident officers. They are specialists, and their role and activities usually have huge support.

I hope that this does not mean that when they have information that someone is going around armed, they no longer intervene (I think it's beyond doubt that there was a non-police weapon at the scene). It would make us all a lot less safe. Has Trident been implicated in police "brutality" (one of the justifications I've seen for the arson and theft last night).

Good for you, Nancy. I'm sure we would all live in Eaton Square if we could afford it

Tanyabranning - you sound like some very well meaning (but totally clueless) youth or social worker.

Gee, thanks, Nancy. That's a real insult! I'd hate to be seen as 'well meaning' or work in a job that actually makes a difference

I'm a journalist by trade.

I don't write for the DM, though, so you probably haven't read my work...

I come from st pauls in bristol, so a similar area I think. I just want to say that it IS vibrant and I love our sense of community which you don't get in other areas, I love the loudness, the smells of all the different foods, the different colour kids all playing together, (they don't care where they come from) I love the music, the different shops and the interesting things available to buy from all over the world I just love it all. Yes there are some bad elements but being born and growing up in such an area has been a very positive experience for me. I would hate to live in a 'posher' area

Tanyabranning I agree with everything you're saying.

Until recently I lived in Brixton, if I had a pound for every time a friend said they wouldn't come see me because it was too dodgy...

I don't know Tottenham (lived in Finsbury Park though) so I can't comment on the specifics there.

But people should remember that when things like this happen and you watch the news, you are only getting a snapshot of the community and also a narrative that the police and government want to put forward. You're not seeing the countless times that totally innocent people have been harassed and treated like shit by the police before this. You're not seeing the miserable conditions under which thousands of hard-working people live.

I'm not excusing the violence and looting, it's despicable. But surely our top aim here is not merely to judge, but to prevent it from happening again? In which case we need to really understand the root causes of the initial disturbance, which is what allowed things to degenerate to the point that criminal opportunists took over.

It's crazy to me that we are putting so much effort into understanding the dynamics in Helmand that lead people to join the Taliban, because we realise this is the only way to make any progress, but we're not willing to apply that same logic to our own cities.

There's a difference between living in multi cultural areas where, by and large, the communities all get on and work together - and living in areas like tottenham where there's a huge gang problem, most of the youths are carrying knives and guns and murder is pretty much a part of every day life.

I've just seen the Facebook page! They walk among us.

I lived in Edmonton some years ago,and now live in Finsbury Park.
It saddens me what happened last night in my local community and am devastated for the injured and the people who lost homes and businesses.
I use Tottenham High Rd to shop most weeks,and it is not a no go area,and the feeling on the street is not like it was 25 years ago (Broadwater Farm),when there was a real problem in the community with the police. Reports I heard on Sky from local community leaders was that the family of the shot man were not in any way supported by the police in their confusion and grief post shooting,and were part of the peaceful protest that marched on Tottenham Police Station,where they waited for 3 hours for some word of proposed support and answers. (Funnily enough,Trident have been to see the family this morning for the first time) The protest was then hijacked by trouble makers many from outside Tottenham, and the result is was we saw.
And yes,parts of North London may be a shit hole...but it's my shithole [wink

Yes that's true, Nancy. That's why I get upset at comments like the one upthread about how 'this is what happens when different peoples live together'. I have also lived in areas where everyone is white and working-class and there are still gangs and guns and violence. You have to really look at each individual community and try to see what the sources of crime and violence are. I do some work in this field and in my experience anyone who says 'it's simple' and doesn't recognise the complexity of the problem, just ends up making the problem worse.

crazynanna I loved living in Finsbury Park If we go back to London I hope to live there again.

dreamingbohemian Look me up if you ever do

Will do!

dreamining bohemian: "It's crazy to me that we are putting so much effort into understanding the dynamics in Helmand that lead people to join the Taliban, because we realise this is the only way to make any progress, but but we're not willing to apply that same logic to our own cities"

excellent point.

It HAS been all over the news! At least, it's been on every news bulletin on Radio 4 since the wee hours of this morning......

Seems to me that it's been mainly a group of disaffected youths who needed only the slightest excuse to start trouble, hi-jacking what began as a peaceful protest.
What the protest was in aid of seems unclear, but it seems to have been about the man who was shot dead by police on Friday. The protester seem to have ignored the fact that the dead man fired at the policce first. Had it not been for the radio of the officer who was hit absorbing the bullet, that officer would have been killed on the spot.

I read 9 pages of this thread,and every post by Tartydoris said 'message deleted by mumsnet"
Wonder what little pearls of wisdom one missed there

...i was wondering that too crazynanna!

Just general ranting about how multicultural society has been the downfall of our civilisation. Nothing new or interesting, or even well-argued.

You had to be awake in the middle of the night to benefit from TartyDoris' wisdom.

I was.

I read it all early this morning. It was nothing earth shattering really, but more proof that is is perfectly ok to be outsopken about your very strident viewpoint on Mumsnet, so long as your very strident viewpoint leans firmly to the left.

Megfox - has the idea that the dead man shot at police first been confirmed by independent sources? Only the police do have a tendency to fib about these things. The first reports from the police are often later revealed to be extraordinariiy inaccurate - see poor Jean Charles de Menezes and all those lies about jumping over the barriers, about being challenged and refusing to stop as well as too many other cases to list.

Maybe this occasion will be different, but I'll wait for independent confirmation before I believe it.

Well, quite, Edam. It's a shame that the rioters and protest marchers were not prepared to do the same.

I'm very concerned about the looting in wood green - this was allowed to continue for several hours with no police presence what so ever. Gratuitous robbery under the guise of protest. This has been under reported by the media so far IMO.