Tottenham rioting

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has anyone heard? seems to be all over Twitter but not on other media
apparently police cars burning

www.lga.gov.uk/lga/aio/2320650

This shows the number of claimants per job vacancy in areas around the UK. They are highest in the outer London boroughs - at 9:1.

The data was collected in 2009 at the beginning of the recession.

No excuse for riots, but this seems to be the common factor between these areas.

LDNmummy, try living in the sticks with no car.

One bus a day into the nearest city.

You can't travel on public transport to work where I used to live..there wasn't any. Well there were four buses a day which was useful to when you needed to go into town to top up the key meter or food. Don't run out on weekend though...

You should protest against it@Lucrezia!

www.lga.gov.uk/lga/aio/2320650

perhaps sparsely populated areas make it harder to gather up a crowd to riot and loot the local post office

Sandra Laville, reports:

<strong>The revelation will fuel the fury in Tottenham about the killing of Mark Duggan by armed officers</strong>

<strong>It also undermines suggestions that there was an exchange of fire between Duggan and the police before he died</strong>

<strong>The bullet which was found lodged in the radio of one of the officers at the scene is still undergoing forensic tests. But reliable sources have said the first ballistics examinations suggested it was a police issue bullet</strong>

<strong>These are very distinct as the Metropolitan Police uses dum dum type hollowed out bullets designed not to pass through an object</strong>

<strong>The early suggestion from the IPCC was that the Met officers had returned fire after someone in the minicab opened fire. But the result of the ballistics early test suggests both shots fired came from the police</strong>

Fellatio considering the history of situations such as this, Is it really surprising that they did not feel that was an adequate response?

Many families of people who die in police custody have to wait years if not decades for answers.

What happened with Smiley Culture?

Actually i think rural life can be considerably harder for young people because of the lack of job opportunities, transport, housing etc.

London has plenty of jobs and a creaking yet working transport infrastructure, it also has plenty of one room bedsits in which young people might possibly be able to afford. Rural areas have very little in the way of affordable housing, very little in the way of flats even. Entertainment is never free, even if its affordable the nearest bus stop can be quite likely to be over a 2 mile walk away on an unlit road without pavements.

Perhaps if some of the millions that has been "invested" in inner city boroughs over the years had floated down to the countryside we too could have all the benefits of city living.

England is more than just London.

People who seriously, seriously, do not think there is a connection between rioting and the economic downturn need to jump on to Amazon and purchase a copy of 'Social Unrest for Dummies' asap.

I know 'lazy benefit scrounging blacks' makes a better Daily Mail headline, but coem on, let's put this into historical context...

That's all very true@AlouiseG, but it has little to do with the riots happening NOW.

And I think we all know that city living has its upsides and its downsides. It isn't all whizzy tubes and city jobs. Weren't you one of the posters talking about what a shit tip Tottenham is earlier today?

Of course rural life has Its down sides, it is the reason I live in a big city.

But, It Is unfair to make out that living in a city means automatically having the best of everything.

There are good sides and bad sides to all environments and unfortunately Tottenham has to deal with the not so brilliant aspects of inner city living.

So what point are you all making?
It's the fault of the police? I thought we'd covered the massive drug and gang culture problem in Tottenham. How do you police that and remain all low key .
Poverty.We've just done how rural poverty is just as bad yet. Manchester, Glasgow all grim, no riots.
According to you it's not the parenting and nothing to do with race so what do you put it down to then?

I have become more and concerned about the powers that police have been given, their attitude and behaviour over the years after 9/11. The people of Tottenham may well have valid and legitimate grievances.

However, like many other people on the thread I do not get the link between grievances about police behaviour and then and going out to smash a shop window and run down the street with a shopping trolley full of looted goods. That is just pure criminality. The reason so many buildings were burned is because it destroys forensic evidence - in the same way as stolen cars are often torched.

My sister lives in a rough area of South London very similar to Tottenham and she says it is completely controlled by criminal gangs. This whole riot was about a fundamental question. Who controls the streets.... the gangs or the police? It seems at least in part to have been quite well organised and in part just opportunist lawlessness by an endemic criminal element.

My sister used to work in local Primary schools in Brixton and saw children as young as 5 who knew how to 'roll a joint', parents who never read a book with their children, kids that never eat a proper meal and barely know their own name. The issues are complex. Society in these places is utterly broken, but that is still not an excuse for criminality.

I just hope that regardless of any error by police we don't somehow make excuses for bare faced thuggery. Most people in Tottenham wish it had not happened, they hate the gangs, they didnt join in the riot. They don't want the police to hand over control of their community to a bunch of thugs. Last night is an example of what happens when police lose control for just a few hours in a place like Tottenham.

Um, socio-economic reasons, as a reasonable few have maintained all along?

It's not rocket science, really, is it?

And there have been riots during hard times in most of the major cities@nothinggold.

Seriously - Amazon!

AmongstWomen - No, i wasn't one of the posters earlier calling Tottenham a shit tip!

No, that was me. I already explained why I called it that.

Lucrezia was that champagne socialist remark directed at me?

So what do we think could have happened? A police bullet ricocheted off the car and back at the policeman's chest/radio? Some witnesses have reported hearing more than two shots though. The trouble is, with so many people out to grind one axe or another for either side, it's quite pointless speculating. It only takes one comment with no basis in fact to appear on Twitter and we all start jumping to conclusions again!

No noddy it was about Diane Abbott! I thought she meant you too at first - an unfortunate x-post!

Felatio, I can't explain why, and I didn't live in either area, but I worked in Tottenham, and I worked in Muswell Hill. The MH children were picked up by nannies and au pairs and it was like a private school. The Tottenham schools were very challenging. I don't even know how close they are but it amused me that the MH school was in Haringey that, at the time had a very bad name in the press. It was georgous. I see your confusion/bemusement but it is the case that they are entirely different (or were, about 15 years ago).

Thanks fellatio x

I've just stuck my head in on Twitter and I had to laugh heartily at Mary Ann Seighart, who upon hearing that the rioting was moving from Enfield to Ponders End, said: 'What?? Pinner next?!!!'

That really tickled me.

Twitter is so full of conspiracies right now, I've had to stop looking at it because i'll be sucked in and start believing it.

Sadly, most of my twitter feed has turned out to be right. Enfield has kicked off a bit tonight. Groups of youths were heading for Waltham Cross until police intervened. There have been some minor disturbances in Brixton and Croydon (have had eye witness accounts from trusted sources of a couple of shop lootings and kids bottling police).

I am in north London, not far from Enfield, and can hear a lot of police sirens outside .

This isn't really ;rioting', though, is it? Looting krispy kreme doughnuts isn't really about avenging police brutality!