Absent fathers to be made into scape goats

[ivykaty44]

absent fathers

as a single mother who has lived without maintenence for periods of time and at times struggled to make ends meet I still think it is awful to suggest making a group of people stigmatised.

there are good NoneResidentParents and there are useless NRP, it isn't just absent fathers but sometimes absent mothers. What sort of country do we live in thuogh where we would want to stigmatise a whole group of people.

Better to keep the CSA free and make it work rather than the clerical mess it is at the moment.

I think you need to remember that most lone parents who are unemployed, either had a job when they were with a partner, or were SAHMs and therefore engaged in a perfectly legitimate occupation.

I think it's unrealistic to blame people for continuing to reproduce when in a relationship. Most people bend over backwards to ensure that they don't have to end the relationship, they are determined to keep it going until the very last moment that they realise it can't be kept going and part of that determination to keep a relationship going, is to talk yourself into believing that you're just going through a bad patch which you'll come out of and to continue to hope and plan for the future. And part of those hopes and plans, is having children. 50% of which, the man in the partnership chooses to have and is then free to walk away from if he so desires - none of the state agencies is going to stop him.

I do think people should not start asking questions about "why do women do xyz. It doesn't actually solve anything to start pointing fingers at people who didn't make the same choices as others and it takes the spotlight off the issue here, which is not that women have children with bad men, but that bad men don't support their children. Let's talk about them shall we, the rest of the world is only too eager to categorise single mothers as feckless idiots.

It does sound like he means well. What he is proposing is to change the culture that deems it OK for men to move on and forget they got someone pregnant. In our case, he got me pregnant, didn't love me or want to be with us so it was acceptable that he didn't have anything to do with DD. His family accepted it even though they did want her in their lives.

His gf who he went on to have a 'proper' family with, wished that DD hadn't happened etc.

If that was demonised by society then maybe DD might have had a dad.

I work for an organisation where I see many cases of parents (virtually but not exclusively all men) failing to provide for their children. That's emotionally as well as financially.

Many men apparently choose to go self employed or leave work to go on benefits shortly after leaving their families. The CSA appears to have no teeth in dealing with this issue. I also feel that people who are responsible and provide financially for their children are often harassed to pay more, sometimes inappropriately.

To give just one example,last week I saw a woman whose husband had walked out when their children were very young. He's apparently paid no maintenance for 9 years but provides for the 2 extra children he now has, plus 3 others from his new partner. he is self employed and claims a derisory income. She has been in constant contact with the CSA to no avail.

sofadweller - how is stigmatising that man going to help? Is he going to be concerned after all if he has not paod a peeny now why would it concerne him what people think and possibly he would lie and say that his ex fleeces him for every penny. Are scum really bothered what others think of them?

Surely it would be far better if DC turned over CSA to the Tax office and they had the powers to intervolve themselves and this would stop people being "self employed" and hiding assets rather than pay to bring up the children they have sired

Hmm, I think the difference with drink driving, is that there are real, hard consequences to doing it, which is why the stigma is effective.

If non-payment of maintenance could be punished by a massive fine or a prison sentence, then I think the stigma would stick. But David Cameron and th Daily Mail saying that it is a Bad Thing, however right they are, isn't enough by itself to cause stigma. Stigma is backed up by real consequences ad just saying it's bad, isn't enough. No serious person ever argues that it's no big deal to not pay for your own child anyway - I've literally never heard anyone trying to justify that, everyone accepts that it's something you should do. They just don't make the jump of ostracising someone who doesn't do it.

Isitreally, I think that was what I was trying to say.

I am hoping that Cameron is bringing this up not with a view to trying to get money off the fathers but trying to stop it being acceptable to get women pregnant and move away from that child.

Hey perhaps this is coinciding with the male contraceptive pill. Take it if you just want a shag as not taking it will have serious consequencies.

Damn, knew consequencies looked the wrong spelling. I blame the wine.

Give the CSA teeth, lots of teeth, including the threat of prison, and raise the amount due per child. Legislation can have an educational effect.

I hate it when a guy goes on to father chidren with other girls and then uses that as an excuse why he cant pay for the first one! Was such an idiot with my first husband believed him when he said he was putting money in a trust fund for our son only to find that he told his Dad he couldnt pay him back a loan because I had took him to court (ahem) to demand money for our child! So I said lets make his imagination real and got him for backdated money not paid! His son is now 22 and was very disappointed that there was no magical savings for him at 18 then 21 when his Dad said there was! They take a percentage of wage depending on children they have! Only encourages them to abandon more women with more kids to pay less when caught! I have went on to become married again to a REAL Dad! We have 2 sons which he supports totally for the last 7 years! Even if God forbids we split up, his desire to provide for his kid would prevail in the no other man will pay for my kid kind of attitude! Some men and woman have a disguisting attitude to the kids they have brought into this world. I am not saying limit the amount of kids you have, but if you cant reasonably afford it? Swear to God my ex had 6 kids so he could say I cant afford child maintenance, thats just wrong!!!!!

No, what's wrong is that that is taken as an excuse. So you have 6 kids, then you pay for each one, a proportion of your income, and the more kids you have the more you pay -- or so it should be. You end up with less for yourself because the days of sending children out as chimney sweeps are over.

DCs comments have really upset me.

Firstly - why should a fathers involvement in his Childs life be limited to weekends?

But, more importantly, if DC is committed to fathers giving their children emotional support, then the whole system needs reviewing so that fathers who want to be involved are supported by the public services in the Childs life.

My SO is not a part of his DD-13s life. The court gave her the choice as to whether she sees him or not - and she has chosen not to because she gets into trouble from her mum when she chooses to see him. DD's mum gets more money through the CSA if she doesn't stay with us - DD knows this, and knows that her mum is struggling financially which also motivates her to stay away.

SO tried to talk to DDs school about keeping in contact - they said that they couldn't involve him unless DD said it was OK - so all he gets is written reports every so often.

SO approached the family GP in the hope he could offer some help to DD. The GP said that even though SO has parental responsibility, he would only do anything for DD if her mother agreed.

My SO is one of those fathers that DC wants to shame - SO knows that he isn't emotionally supporting his daughter - but DCs "big society" won't support him to get involved - so what should he do, DC?

The funny thing is, we had a thread on this just the other day, where the OP said some friend of a friend came round to her house and starting almost bragging about how he had children but nothing to do with them because it was too much hassle - and then he seemed almost surprised when the OP said she thought that was disgusting.

Everyone agreed it was astonishing it wasn't socially beyond the pale (if you're a man) to admit you don't support your children.

I haven't read the whole thread, but my exhusband is absolutely one of the runaway deadbeat dads that Cameron is talking about. He stole all our savings, left me ten thousand pounds overdrawn, got on a plane and flew to Thailand abondoning me and our baby son when he was only 6 months old.

He also left behind two lovely daughters then aged 8 and 11 and whom he had an established close relationship with (or so I thought)

He lied his way into a job over there, pays not a single penny towards his three children, left me traumatised and our son with a horrible legacy. He went to Cambodia and slept with prostitutes and is shacked up with Burmese woman. He is on FB - pictures of himself scuba diving and enjoying sight-seeing trips and eating lush Thai curries by blue seas and white sands.

My son is three now and knows that 'daddy ran away.'

I would LOVE someone from an enforcement agency - a burly copper or a team of CSA 'debt recoverers' - or the strongmen from Nat West who pursued ME for the ten grand debt instead of him - flying directly to Chiang Mai, hauling him out of a University lecture theatre, arresting him for child neglect, emotional abuse and financial abuse, fraud and theft...and extraditing him to the UK amid a LOT of high-end publicity, and putting him in jail.

So many people have told me over the last three years - 'forget about him. You are better off without him, don't stoop to his level, at least he left you with the house, at least you don't have to put up with bitter weekend handovers..' blah blah. All true quite probably. BUT, he and runaway disgusting men like him should still not be allowed to get away with it. They should be named and shamed and forced to pay a penalty.

If I left my ds in his cot at 6 months and fecked off to live the high life in the med, I would have committed a very serious crime.

So has he.

I like Cameron but I think he is treading on very dangerous ground here.

Not supporting your children should be vilified if its as black and white as that, however it rarely is.

As you say, in my case it is that black and white. But he isn't villified is he. He has got clean away with it. And I can't believe I am the only one in a similar position. Why not start with finding, and jailing exes like mine for starters?

UA, your situation is indeed B&W and I'm sure he is vilified by your famly and friends....however thats worth fuck all as he isn't here to face it. Your situation is where the law should have teeth.

How much should an absent parent pay ?

Should there be a blame factor in deciding how much ?

Isitreally - DC isn't just referring to financial support though, but emotional support, too - and no matter how willing the father is, that is not always accepted.

As for finances - is DC planning on reviewing the CSA? My SO has been underpaying for his kids for 14 months cos of CSA mistakes - then they ask him for over £1000 in a lump to pay the arrears.....he felt awful that he'd not been paying enough, but where is he going to find that sort of money?

After many years of sporadic CSA payments, no interest in our DD because he had a new GF and DS and trying to explain through the years about her fathers absence and having to see that hurt in her eyes, all I hoped for yesterday that my DD's absent father heard DC news report and felt bad. Funny how I don't expect much anymore.....

Isirreally - CSA asked SO for a credit card number there and then - when he said he couldn't pay, they said that he would have three months to pay back the arrears that accrued over 14 months - even if he could have afforded it, why should his children have to wait for it even longer because the CSA buggered it up?

Is money really all it's about though? DC mentioned Dads being involved in education and other aspects of their childs life, as well as the money. No mater how much a Dad pays, the child may not benefit if the mother chooses not to spend that money for the childrens wellbeing, and Dad can't play a role in his childs life if mum blocks it.

I appreciate that this isn't necessarily the "norm" but for those dads who are exhausted from the effort of trying to stay in touch with their kids, DC's comments are a huge insult and more evidence that that the system is really only interested in money, not the wellbeing of children.