Absent fathers to be made into scape goats

[ivykaty44]

absent fathers

as a single mother who has lived without maintenence for periods of time and at times struggled to make ends meet I still think it is awful to suggest making a group of people stigmatised.

there are good NoneResidentParents and there are useless NRP, it isn't just absent fathers but sometimes absent mothers. What sort of country do we live in thuogh where we would want to stigmatise a whole group of people.

Better to keep the CSA free and make it work rather than the clerical mess it is at the moment.

I have no idea TBH Truck, but you would obviously need evidence to be fair to both parties. Maybe a log along the lines of a sign in/out sheet used by nurseries etc? Or maybe an online database that can be accessed by mobile phone whereby both parents have to log in when the NRP arrives. I'm sure someone could come up with something.

I agree coco. It seems wrong. I think the whole court system needs a complete overhaul when it comes to contact.

IMPORTANT DISCLAIMER: I AM NOT IMPLYING ALL OR EVEN MOST NRPs ARE ABUSERS IN THE FOLLOWING POST. I AM ANSWERING SOMETHING SPECIFIC TO COCOs POST.

It is unusual for a child to express sustained reluctance to spend time with the NRP, even when they are picking up on the resident parent's opposition to it. What often happens is that the child senses the resident parent's reluctance, becomes anxious and eager to please and then says they don't want to go. However, as soon as they are with the other parent that reluctance disappears and they generally have a good time and come back happy. THey will usually admit to an uninvolved adult that they love the NRP but worry that saying so upsets their PWC. However, when a child consistently states their unhappiness about going or comes back withdrawn, it is cause for concern.

Father's Rights campaigners sometimes imply Parental Alienation Syndrome (i.e. that the resident parent is poisoning the child against the NRP), but this is not accepted in court because it is a Syndrome that was made up by psychiatrist Richard Gardner with no scientific research behind it. This is a man who denies the scale of child abuse, despite the evidence, and has said "there is a bit of pedophilia in every one of us". Unsurprisingly, he is not held in high academic regard. PAS does not exist.

It is unusual for a child to be turned against a loving NRP even under considerable pressure from a resident parent. Obviously there are exceptions, but in most cases there is a genuine reason the child doesn't want to go and that reason should be heard and acted on. I think the true shocker in the contact arrangements is the amount of children forced to have contact with abusive NRPs, and instead of listening to them we are telling them their mothers are liars and that their father's have rights to do what they want.

Policiing NRP not turning up... you could have a twitter campaign and web site, adverse publicity, pubilc stocks kind of thing along the lines of Cameron's public shame suggestions.

You could take the stance in my suggestion too which is stop his next few visits if he messes you around on 3 of them.

"You could take the stance in my suggestion too which is stop his next few visits if he messes you around on 3 of them."

Xenia I wish it were so simple. I really do! Sadly all they would do is drag you back to court and keep getting countless chances to redeem themselves.

Yes swallowed. Yet no threat of prison for the parent who CBA to turn up...

The family law in the UK is beyond a joke... it really is. It urgently needs to be revisited and reformed.

As 97% of resident parents are women, I don't think men's (sorry menz) rights are at the front of anyone's minds. 10% of cases go to court so I think access problems through court orders are in the minority.

I feel a bit sorry for the CSA and the courts, imagine trying to sort out thousands and thousands of relationship disputes that couples can't resolve themselves.

All the CSA's problems centre on chasing down reluctant NRPs and proving what they are earning/capable of paying. That could be solved very easily.

The person claiming for child benefit already has to declare their NI number. CHange it so that both parents have to give it at the time it is applied for (bearing in mind that the vast majority of children from lone parent families were born into a cohabiting or married couple). Then link the CSA to HMRC. Instant proof of income and location.

If someone is the RP dont be fooled for a second they are treated more fairly under the law- infact the opposite. Regardless of gender many NRP can and are allowed to case havoc to the RP and the children by the court.

I have no idea if the 10% stat bears any truth but often the contact is expected to be sorted through solicitors and mediation first with court a last resort. So whilst court orders would not come from this many contact would be arranged through legal channels.

Realtionship disputes is not accurate- the courts role is too act in what they think is in the best interests of the child though often this is very black and white. The court has no interest in repairing the parents realtionship as such.

I would consider the NRP not agreeing to pay maintenance and therefore the CSA getting involved a relationship dispute.

Also if a couple cannot separate amicably so the courts get involved to sort out finances and issues to do with the children I'd call that a relationship dispute.

Would post-relationship dispute have been better?

I'm not sure how effective enforcements for contact between a child and NRP would be in reality, though I'm open to suggestions. I think Xenia's model whereby abusing it results in losing it is the only model that would work TBH.

IT is wrong that an NRP can consistently let down a child and frustrate the mother, but I for one wouldn't want my XP turing up if the only reason he was doing so was to avoid prison. Any man who has to be forced to see that it is not okay to mess his child around is not really someone who you would want to be around your child, is he?

I would hate it if my own NRP had to forced to be in our life. It would be hell and damaging.

However I do find it sick if a contact order was in place he can do what he pleases no consequence where I could risk prison.

It is not just. It is not fair.

Not many!

My model can be applied by any mother on h ere if she wants to as she won't be jailed for breaking the order. Just make sure each time he is more than 30 minutes late you send a special delivery letter and email it to him saying what happened and recalling any previous breaches and a short note abotu the child being disappointed and your extra costs of arranging babysitting etc.

Everything is really simple for me though. 5 children (until the older ones left) virtually 100% of the time, I work full time he pays nothing. I paid him. In some ways it's the least acrimonious position possible.

However lots of women do feel very very sorry for fathers who are denied contact. I think most people want fairness but rights bring responsibilities with them. Most contact is not done through courts and plenty of arrangements are just agreed and work fine but that doesn't work for everyone.

Xenia I do appreciate what you are saying but the model just won't matter to many courts.

All the NRP has to say is "I have changed and Im sorry" and they are allowed chance number two, or three... or twenty....

I think that's what Xenia's advocating Coco - that the courts should be changed to the model she's suggesting. Three strikes and you're out sort of thing.

That would be great in my case.

Family law needs a massive shake up....