German insurer Munich Re held orgy for salesmen

[MollysChamber]

I have no words

Oh, of course there are men who mostly are fine but occasionally fall off the rails. But going to a planned orgy ... well, sorry but I can't think of any man I know personally or professionally who'd really not know that was wrong.

I have a bigger issue with a company deliberately organising such an event. Do you think that was really OK?

I think the fact that this is such a huge story in Germany is slightly reassuring in a sad sort of way, it would be more depressing if it was the norm (sex-industry related marketing is still somewhat normal, but not in such a blatant, public, near compulsory way).

But I'd like to defend Munich Re, who have had their name smeared all over the press in connection with something that happened years before they bought the company in question.

A planned orgy between groups of consenting adults is a very different prospect from a group of prostitutes being supplied to a group of flown-in western businessmen.

I would be heartbroken if a son of mine thought it was okay to behave in this manner, or was weak-minded enough to 'go along with' his colleagues.

RobF wrote - "flawed human beings, with selfish needs"

I reckon they must use the selfishness to rationalise and justify turning what is in reality only their desire into a "need", in their own minds.

Yep, I picked up on that too. The "need" to stick your dick into an unwilling woman obviously comes fairly high up on his priority list

Rob - Are you actually a real, live person who believes the crap you've spouted on here or are you on the wind up?

If it's the former then I really do despair.

Rob the company gifted these women to men in exchange for "selling well". Can't you see thats wrong?

Also your comment that if the women who work there don't like it they can go somewhere else,.... are you really saying sexual harrasment and discrimination is OK in the workplace, because women can leave? Seriously? What about against black people would that be OK?

Actually what if a mostly white company hired 20 black people to play at being slaves to compensate their workers for doing well.. would that be OK? As they consented and were beign paid?

How do you 'hire people to play at being slaves'? If they're being paid, and have a choice of whether to be there or not, they aren't slaves.

Sexual harassment and discrimination is not ok in the workplace. But I don't see what that has to do with this topic.

Rob's bored. It's Friday, the clock is crawling, so he's poking mumsnet with sticks. I understand totally. Twenty minutes to go, Rob, then you can leg it from the office and get thee to a beer.

Makes me a bit angry to say that 'The Germans are kinky misogynistic tossers'. I am German, lived in England and am living in France now. Saw, heard and read about stuff like that in all countries. It is a disgusting fact that this happened. They should be ashamed and it should be followed and prosecuted, but please stop these kind of generalisations

Has Rob gone? Noooooooooooo!

Sexual harassment and discrimination is not ok in the workplace. But I don't see what that has to do with this topic.

You don't? Put yourself in the place of the odd female employee of this company. Or a gay man. A reward designed soley for heterosexual men isn't discriminatory?

If I as a woman work for a company that rewards men with women as a bonus scheme.. Can you not see why that would lead to an unfair working environment fo rme?

This is totally form the workers point of view as well.. Obviously the women were being abused or the company would not have left germany to have the orgy. Prostituion is legal in germany. They must have for a reason.

What "reward" did any women in the company get?

And I wonder how much the customers of the company have to pay per product to fund these events. I don't really agree with company profits being used to provide entertainment for employees only. The pay/bonus structure should cover all the tangible rewards for good performance.

Hesitate slightly to wade back in here now that Knob Rob has added his perspective but here goes.

I am a successful salesperson; I have often been salesperson of the year; I usually work on multi-million pound deals (to set the scene); I work to put food on the table and feed, clothe and educate my daughter (and myself, come to that). Oddly enough, I have never been offered a male prostitute as a "reward".

I was once in a situation where one, male, member of the sales team arranged for an escort to join us all at a celebration in the West End. I was about this and would have let it go but the rest of the team present (all men) were not so amused and he was asked to leave. He was eventually sacked for "expense irregularities".

I have worked with people who I know use prostitutes and escorts but the majority of the men I've worked with have been decent and would no more want to be rewarded by a company orgy than they would want to boil their heads.

I know the rest of us don't need to be told this but Rob obviously does;

having sex/masturbating into another human being is not actually a human right.

Bodily integrity and the right to not be coerced into performing sexual acts with a stranger, however is.

A man whose wife does not want to have sex with him, does not have the right to inflict his sense of sexual entitlement on the poor or the vulnerable.

The poor and the vulnerable have a right to not be masturbated into by entitled privileged men with a wad of cash or an expenses account.

This is called humanity. One needs to have empathy in order to see this.

HTH.

Thank you wise ladies for trying to educate Rob in the error of his ways.

I feel he may be a lost cause but I am very grateful for your input.

And another thing.

I don't, on the whole, group men into two distinct groups of 'decent men' and 'indecent men' - unless the men concerned have a history of abusing women.

I do however judge the acts of men and women as being humane or inhumane.

Masturbating into a prostituted woman of whom one has no idea of her circumstances, history and ability to meaningfully consent to being a masturbatory aid for an entitled person, comes under the category 'inhumane'.

And thank you proley - coming from you, that is a real feminist compliment .

Hmm. I wonder a bit about the truth of this story, particularly the armbands/handstamping details. Given that it is all the word of 'an unnamed source' and happened several years ago. It could be completely made up by a prankster or someone who wants to see the company's share price plummet.

SGB
The handstamping does not surprise me. It is common practice in nightclubs in Germany to stamp guests hands or wrists to show that that the customer had payed. And so that you can leave the nightclub and come back inside again (eg. to go for a cigarette)

I think it is true. My BIL works for the company, and I have attended some parties where his colleagues have been there. Lots of sexist jokes, quite sleazy guys.

Particularly the armbands - that smacks of a bit of xenophobic stereotyping of German efficiency. I have known coloured armbands/badges being used at sex parties before, but this was among consenting adults and part of a game.

No, the armbands are used eg in Freizeitparks, amusement parks. Or at festivals.

It is very German. No one thinks of Nazis or Jews when they wear them, it is organisation.