Chris Pattern says that "atheists are "intolerant" of religion."

[ivykaty44]

Is he correct? And should atheist be tolerant of religion?

"The majority of atheists tolerate religion but from the perspective that it is wrong."

... that its premises are wrong, probably.

Nobody can deny that religion serves a purpose for a lot of people, so it can't be "wrong" per se.

Just like homeopathy - I can't say it's wrong to use it if you think the placebo effect you get from it is worthwhile, but its premises are wrong - water doesn't have memory, a solution doesn't get more potent the more you dilute it, etc.

I'm not an atheist, by the way, because there is no proof that there is no God, either.

cote d'azur - that's exactly what I think too - rational people would instantly realise that millions have been believing in something that has never been proven.

claig In my mind there is no difference in proving God exists and having faith in God - you might as well be praying/believing in pineapple jelly (or whatever). Religion is simply brainwashing of the masses to control society and give power to those creating the religions.

'Are some of these posts piss-takes ironic? The evil progressives, mentions of Daily Mail as moderate and New Labour?'

I can assure you that the progressives are not a joking matter.

'"he may have had self-aggrandisement in mind. He may have had progressive intent."

Did you just redefine the word "progressive"?

No, I used it in its true, esoteric sense.

Yes I think that for many people they don't really think about it. It doesn't do anything for them, they don't really care. They just get annoyed when eg their children have to pray at state schools. And I think that's where religious people get confused as they assume that people who don't believe feel as strongly as them in their belief. And feel animosity towards people who believe different things. Maybe this whole thing is just a huge case of transference.

Indeed - not that belief is "wrong" in any kind of moral way but that as a matter of fact, it cannot be correct.

exoticfruits, good then you should join SGB

Strange that I should always argue with SGB (and disagree with everything she says) and yet I am now her ally! How could that happen? Only from someone as bigoted the other way!
I must be very clever to have managed it

I think that SGB and claig are twins-different sides of the same coin-and both very damaging for 'their own side'. Impossible to take either seriously-or even bother to listen.

'Religion is simply brainwashing of the masses to control society and give power to those creating the religions.'

Global warming is brainwashing of the masses. The progressives who said "we have only 50 days left to save the planet" were doing that. That's why all the polls show that the majority don't believe it.

Religion has persisted since the beginning of time, when cavemen buried their dead with ornaments to take into the next world. It is a fundamental human need, built in to most people. Global warming will eventually lose its hold on the masses since it is brainwashing, but religion has not lost its hold. Yes, individual religions can be claimed to do brainwashing too and in thousands of years' time they will have to change some of their doctrines or face going the way of global warming, but religious faith wil always survive because it seems to be inbuilt in humans.

Certainly many people have thought that their religious beliefs gave them carte blanche to do whatever they liked throughout history, and into the present day. That's not a good thing though.

Hahaha! Religion is not a fundamental human need. One can argue that maybe "faith" is, but not "religion" ffs.

As an atheist though Claig, I still believe there is something more than just earth. I do actually believe in ghosts/spirits/aliens but the whole idea of a God makes me laugh.

As a geographer, I also don't believe in the common percetion of global warming so basically, what I'm saying is that the whole debate isn't simply cut and dried.

And where is the evidence to show that cavemen were buried with their ornaments (what ornaments?) to take into the next world? Perhaps they were just buried with them as a nice gesture, like we put books etc into peoples' graves; doesn't mean they're going to read them in heaven - just that they were some of their belongings.

In this case the US christian right-wing believe it is their fundamental right to do whatever they like in terms of involving themselves in wars with oil producing countries, causing massive pollution and not clearing it up, filling the skies with smog and generally barging around the place with no concern for anyone but themselves. They can do this as they believe utterly and completely that they are right, and that God is on their side.

This is not a positive aspect of religious belief.

So thinking about these dangerous progressives I've made a list of things to be afraid of:

The Wheel
The Spinning Jenny
The Telephone
The Motor Car
The Television
The Computer

Some other more recent innovations:
The iPhone
3-D cinema screenings
Hybrid cars
Solar panels

I think you will find that all those inventions were created by conservatives (some of them possibley God-fearing).

Haha! I'm just joining in. I don't believe Claig is serious. I think she's having a laugh.

Can't possibly confirm the outfit for Friday

The conservatives

Discovery that the world is round (and not flat, resting on tortoises or giant fish)
Earth is NOT the centre of the world
First flight of a man in space
General theory of relativity
Quantum mechanics
Strings
...

Aha, Claig.

Bruno was not burned at stake
Galileo was given a scholarship and lifelong pension to further his research

The Christian right is made up of millions of ordinary people. They don't pollute their land, they care for their animals, their homes, their gardens and their environments. Many of them were angry at BP for the Gulf catastrophe. Don't confuse millions of ordinary people with political leaders who use the Christian right for their political objectives. I don't confuse millions of good Labour voters with progressives like Bliar.

bemybebe, well done you have found some brave conservatives who stood up for the truth against teh Church's mumbo jumbo of the time - brave people like Galileo. That is exactly the same as now, with brave conservatives like Sir Nigel Lawson standing up against the progressive mumbo jumbo of climate catastrophe. I think we are on the same side - against all mumbo jumbo, against the plans of the progressives. If Galileo was here today, he would undoubtedly join us.

rubbish, those were people who did not let religious dogma get on the way of reason

What is the "esoteric sense" of the term "progressive", then?

That's exactly what Sir Nigel Lawson is doing. We are in total agreement.

I am not saying that any particular religious domination has the answers. i agree with SGB that a lot of what some of them say is wrong and some has been brainwashing. Religious dogma has nothing to do with God, just as climate catastrophe has nothing to do with the truth. God didn't create religious dogma, it was human beings who did so. God created the planet and progressives tell us that we are destroying God's planet. Just like Galileo, I have faith in God and not the progressives.