Chris Pattern says that "atheists are "intolerant" of religion."

[ivykaty44]

Is he correct? And should atheist be tolerant of religion?

LOL Claig you do make me laugh

God works in mysterious ways. God wants believe to believe of their own free will. God created the progressives too. God hopes the revolutionary socialists will return to him, just like the Prodigal Son returned, and then there will be rejoicing in heaven. If God said here I am, then there would be no value in people's faith. Faith is valuiable because it is given without proof, without reason. Faith is just like love, for which there is no rhyme or reason.

sorry
"no rhyme or reason" should have read "no New Labour"

THe superstitous don't want tolerance. They want special privileges. Which is why, in a public forum, I will continue to speak of all superstitons with contempt. The right to laugh at and dismiss the nonsense some people want to believe in is a vital one, because a culture of 'respect' for people's imaginary friends and pointless rituals becomes a culture in which dangerous, abusive, unethical or disgusting behaviours can be covered up or protected onthe grounds of 'respecting faith.'

I don't have a "deeply held" view about atheism - in the true meaning of the word "not beleiving in deities" - and more than I have a "deeply held" view about the Loch Ness Monster or fairies or any other "non" items.

You can't have a "deeply held" view about "nothing"

It is just not relevant to me

..... except where other people's religious views impact on my life

That is the only reason why I choose, on occasion, to particupate in such disucssions on MN. Not to insult people who do beleive in god or gods but to point out that their beliefs do an impact on every day life - which, because it is so ingrained, they often don't even realise (eg, state funding of cathlic schools in Scotland, grant maintained CofE schools in England).

What I do believe in is "disestablishmentarianism" ie splitting the state from the church and having a properly secular state.

But there never will be proof. Proof is impossible. You are looking for proof and you will never find it, that door is locked. Only faith will open the door, it is a different dimension, a different plane. Some would say you may need to wear a bucket on your head to access that dimension, others would say that is the true dimesnsion and all else is illusion.

See I just don't agree. But I respect your right to think it.

I agree with SardineQueen. Why should one religion get special privileges? That seems strange to me and not very equal, especially when we are all expected to pay for it. I find it rather intrusive.

So if God actually appeared, that would be a disaster for religious people?

If God actually appeared, then I'd eat my hat and start praying

'more than I have a "deeply held" view about the Loch Ness Monster'

Can you please leave Gordon Brown out of this? That's twice you've brought him up.

i am not at all. i find it hard to get my head around how someone can place so much faith in god or gods but i never ever try to make someone see what i believe is the truth, though i have many many times had my beliefs dismissed as rubbish and disrespected by believers i jsut ignore them its a shame they can not show the same respect towards my beliefs as i do theres but then judaisim, christianity and islam do not really allow that

Strangely some of the Christians I have known (Claig would approve - they read teh DM) - were very dubious about the presence in this area of Jewish state schools. That's not terribly tolerant, now, is it. Newsflash not all religious people are tolerant!!!

I wonder how CofE people would feel if they lived in an area where all the schools were Muslim, Jewish and Hindu. Would they feel pleased, approach the situation with amicable tolerance, and happily head off for a lengthy commute to get their children to school, as they weren't allowed to go to any of them? Hmmmmm..........

SQ: Well, for a lot of them it would, because it would be the 'wrong' one for millions, given that there are several monotheistic faiths which couldn't all be right.
The argument that always seems to me to indicate that superstitoun is all about privlege is when people start getting all fussy about 'respecting faith' even though their own supserstiton has as a central tenet the idea that their imaginary friend is the one and only, and people who have a different imaginary friend are simply WRONG.

Ouch Darth. Hope you feel better soon

I think there are many religious people who find the mere mention of atheism threatening. The position of an atheist is not "each to their own - who knows who is right", but "there is no God and those of you who believe, believe in something that does not exist". The majority of atheists may be too polite to frame their views to include the position of believers, but it is the logical corolloray of atheism - atheism precludes acceptance of belief in God. The majority of atheists tolerate religion but from the perspective that it is wrong.

Quite SGB. People believe in all sorts of things, and I know that people who follow the main religions do not always treat people with more uncommon beliefs with respect.

'So if God actually appeared, that would be a disaster for religious people?'

Yes, it would be a disaster for God and all people. God exists, He knows He does, He doesn't need to prove anything, just like religious MNers (bucketheads one and all) don't try to prove that He exists.

It is all about intentions. Goodness, faith and love depend on good intent, with no ulterior motive. A millionaire who gives to charity may not have committed a good act, since his intent may not have been selfless, he may have had self-aggrandisement in mind. He may have had progressive intent.

PMSL

Sorry I don't know what else to say.

Incidentally goodness, faith (in the broadest sense) and love are not qualities that reside only in religious people.

Are some of these posts piss-takes ironic? The evil progressives, mentions of Daily Mail as moderate and New Labour?

No it's just Claig. The posts are sincere (unless this is a very drawn out joke).

Why on earth should proof be "impossible"?

If we manage to find proof at a subatomic level for quantum theory, we should also be able to find proof for the existence of God, if there is any.

We can look at background radiation from the moment of Big Bang. Do you even understand what that means?

Personally, I don't know if the universe was created by a benevolent if a bit meddling deity, but until I see proof I cannot just "believe" because that is not what rational people I do.

"he may have had self-aggrandisement in mind. He may have had progressive intent."

Did you just redefine the word "progressive"?

SGB is right. There is lots wrong about religions, and they do need to be criticised, so that they change and adapt. injustices have been carried out in the name of religions. But this is different from whether God exists and faith in God. Religions are different schools of thought about God, but none of them have the whole picture or the whole truth. religious people are often intolerant, because they are human and are all sinners (e.g. progressives), but true faith in God makes people more tolerant. "By their deeds you shall know them." Tony Blair claims he is a Christian, let God be the judge.

What happened about that God gene business? That people who had faith shared something and people who didn't, didn't. And that if people had the gene they believed in something but it could be anything from an organised religion to a made up personal spirituality. I think that some athiests would quite like to believe, for the sake of an easy life, and for the sake of the apparently increased happiness faith confers.

But if you don't believe then you don't believe. You can't. And that's that.

It must be a nightmare living in a very religious environment (think Afghanistan under the Taleban) and have to do all the stuff but not actually believe a word of it, no matter how hard you tried.