Explicit Sex Ed material for 5 years olds!!!

[vintageteacups]

sex ed for 5 years olds

I think this is extremely wrong on so many levels. Would you seriously like your 5 yr olds to be told about sex like this???

and tbh I'm not entirely convinced that all teenage girls that get pregnant know all about how they can live this wonderful life on benefits.

I have a young friend (it's my BF's DD) who fell pregnant at just shy of 19yrs old. To be frank, the school she attended (up to 16yrs old) and the college she infrequently attended between 16 and 18 is exactly the type of place where you will find a lot of young girls (and boys) who will go on to become young parents. We do have quite a high teenage pregnancy rate in our town (at around 2x the national average). And large numbers of unemployed people of all ages, including yes, the 2nd generation benefit claimants.

Last August after I got back from my holiday I had a deseperate phonecall from my BF asking me about what her DD would be entitled to. Her finance (they'd been together for 4yrs and engaged since she turned 18) had left her at 7 months pregnant and she was facing life as a single parent. He was 18

She knew she could claim IS and could put her name on the council waiting list (although chose not to do that as she wanted to be closer to better schools in order to giver her DS a better education - so went through the Rent Assistance Scheme at the council to get a private let).

She didn't have the first idea of what benefits she could claim, what help she could get.......because her finance was working and they were loooking to support themselves.

billiek is correct; the emotional development of some children means they may not be ready for the details specified in some of the literature at a young age.

I know my dd(9) for example, although we've talked about periods cannot conceive (pardon the pun) the idea that she will actually have to have periods.

She said "well, I'm gonna choose not to have them".

So what I'm saying is that if the parents take responsibilty until say year 6/7, when schools can teach in more detail, alongside drugs/crime/relationships etc, then they are far better equipped than any teacher to understand their child's emotional stage and how they would cope with the information.

vintageteacups - that seems a sensible compromise.

Grimma - your analogy (road sfaety advice and RTAs) does not read across exactly. After all, crossing the road or walking along the pavement are not inherently pleasurable activities, unlike (good) sex.

A better analogy would be the relationship (if any) between learning to drive a car (driving being fun, cool grown-up etc) and RTAs...or maybe lighting fireworks and burns injuries I don't know that many people are clamouring for their children to be 'better informed' about these inherently dangerous, yet pleasurable activities.

Surely Pixie that as a family, you would have explained about death to your kids before yr 2???

They must have surely seen a dead bird/spider/pet/relative etc.

Not the same arguement at all really (IMO)

Hmm I guess.

Surely the difference is that sex is illegal until 16 - dying/periods aren't.

If my 4yo asked me I'd tell her, but I would not want her to be taught any of that and to that extent in school until much later on. Why can't children be allowed to be children these days? it's very sad imo.

I'm coming back to majordan's learner driving metaphor.

My DS (2.4) obviously doesn't know how to drive and but he does know the names of the main parts of the car and he knows that stepping in the road is dangerous. As he grows older he will learn about pedestrian safety, the internal combustion engine, pollution, petrol types, key road conventions and laws and what car seat he should be in etc etc etc. When he gets to 17 therefore he'll be coming with a whole lot of knowledge and second hand experience of the subject when he starts lessons.

Same with sex no?

I just remembered that my aunt complained a couple of years ago about my teenage cousin's sex ed. She told the teacher it was too negative and would put the poor kids off sex for life!

It's illegal for children to have sex before 16, it's not illegal for adults to have sex, it's not illegal for children to masturbate, it's not illegal for children to start to explore activities with another child which, if the hormones are raging (and arguably imo if they are very innocent about the mechanics of sex and the consequences) might lead to more..

I come from the premise that sex education is not teaching children to have sex. We're preparing our children for their future life and relationships. I can't for the life of me see how that can be a bad thing.

I don't think being illegal is relevant, its hardly ever enforced and I would say most teenagers at present don't take that seriously. My teens and I both have agreed when having sex, the law is the last thing on your mind, only once you are 16 and your partner is younger is it possibly a worry.

Teaching children this form of sex ed will teach them from a young age about emotional maturity when it comes to sex, not feeling pressured and so perhaps in the future the law will be more relevant as our children will understand why its illegal to have sex before 16.

They will be more aware that sex is for those who are ready and that often isn't until around 16.

Personally I'm not too worried about teen sex in general, I think its a normal exploration and something I mostly enjoyed. I am worried about STIs, unplanned teen pregnancy and why is some teen pregnancy planned. Unplanned teen pregnancy and STIs can take an understandable exploration down a life-changing path and planned teen pregnancy is often a result of them being misguided. Many look for love through sex, they feel the need to be loved, when they unsurprisingly don't feel loved as a result of sex they want a baby. Educating our children about relationships and sex will dispel these myths and mean they are better prepared when the time comes.

Teaching them this at 13 & 14 is often too late for some. Also I still maintain this isn't that shocking, the only part I don't like is an orgasm being described as a tickle. I don't want a game of me tickling her being talked about as "mummy gave me an orgasm"!

Actually, the comment up the thread about levels of anal sex among "True Love Waits" teens reminded me of something I read ages ago about oral sex among teenagers in the US. It was in the context of the Bill Clinton/Monica Lewinsky affair and argued that in the US, oral sex was not considered "sex" and so good girls could do it and still remain virgins (always girls doing it to boys of course ).

Hit post too soon - the gist was that therefore Bill Clinton might have felt he was telling the truth when he said "I did not have sex with that woman". Bollocks of course.

Anyway, apparently instances of oral cancers are on the rise and the HPV virus is being blamed. You can also get gonnhorrea (sp!), syphilis etc etc orally. Hope parents are covering all this at home.

Yes, Suzi - very odd ideas about sex - as if God forgives a technicality!

PZ Myers has covered this story

I love PZ.

Exactly Ruby. That's why I don't think there should be an age of consent - over-18s should not be allowed to have sex with under-16s should be the law IMO.

ruby that's incorrect.

"What are the rules?

In England, Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales we have to be 16 or older to have homosexual (gay) or heterosexual (straight) sex.

'Sex' means penetrative sex, oral sex or masturbating together.

What happens if you have underage sex?

The law sees it as sexual assault - it's a criminal offence. This is because in the eyes of the law we are unable to give informed consent to sex when still a child.

A boy who has sex with a girl under 16 (17 in NI) is breaking the law. Even if she agrees.

If she is 13-15, the boy could go to prison for two years.
If she is under 13 he could be sentenced to life imprisonment.

A girl age 16 or over who has sex with a boy under 16 can be prosecuted for indecent assault. "

ahhhh - well if that's the rules - yes I had underage sex.........

I'm not asking what the rules are.

I'm saying, as someone who for the past 6 years has worked with a couple of hundred teens a year nearly all who have had underage sex, I have never encountered anyone who has been prosecuted for underage sex. I have only ever heard it raised in the context of "I'm 17, she's 15, will that mean I get in trouble" and even them worrying about that is very rare.

Also the point I was making is that talk to teens they really aren't preoccupied by the law. It is not top of their list of concerns about sex. They just think its a random number and it doesn't make sense to them.

Well, they could potentially be put on the sex offenders register if a boy 16 or above has sex with an underage firl. In your post you said

"only once you are 16 and your partner is younger is it possibly a worry".

there's no possibly about it - it's a big worry!

As I said I'm talking about from a teen perspective. Some, in my experience very few, see it as a worry, some don't. They are more concerned with getting pregnant, or being called a slag/sket or that they might have caught something.

Teenagers are also much more likely to be getting arrested for other issues and that/ police harassment/ all adults seeming to believe they are to no good are their concerns in regards to the law.

I think like most parents of teenagers I would be interested to see statistics related to these laws, such as conviction rates.

I think it's worth remembering that one argument for an age of consent is that of protection of minors from predatory adults.

It's all very well discussing apparently harmless liaisons between teenagers of similar ages but let's not forget that men in their 20s, 30s and 40s would be most grateful to those of you that question the wisdom of any age of consent at all.

I questioned the age of consent and suggested that under-16s should be protected from over-18s instead - would be much better at protecting vulnerable minors than the current law - which as Ruby points out is rarely implemented anyway. I know LOADS of people (most in fact - not me) who lost their virginity under-age and not one who was ever arrested or prosecuted.