Court backs decision to bar Christian foster couple

[hymie]

Should Christians be stopped from fostering because of their faith/belief?

LINK

I give up. It's all a great big conspiracy to bully Christians.

I'll tell you what bothers me most about this thread. People who have actual personal experience have been on this thread and have made it clear that from a young age, their sexuality was an issue. These carers would have been damaging to these children. And it is clear that several posters on here don't care. I can only conclude that these children don't matter as much as straight children in their world view.

A couple of points that have already been mentioned but need reiterating:

Children in foster care ARE in care. When you say a child is in care, the vast, vast majority of the time this means that they are in foster care. Some may be in children's homes, yes, but foster care IS care. And also, being in foster care does not automatically make you feel loved and wanted (especially if you're gay and with homophobes).

As grandhighpoohba said, many people do know that they are gay at a young age. And in any case, it doesn't matter what age someone realises they are gay: when they do realise, they are going to interpret this according to the messages that have received PRIOR to this point. If they have heard homophobic comments, they are going to be worried about this new development in their feelings. If they have heard these comments in the playground, and, when talking to those caring for them, have received a neutral answer or silence, this is going to give the message that the homophobia they have encountered isn't something the adults feel it is necessary to tackle. Or, worse, that the adults actually agree with it but are deliberately maintaining a 'neutral' stance.

On this point: just ask anyone who suffered (like myself) under section 28 whether a stance of silence and/or neutrality actually does anything but harm a gay person when the homophobia around them is very vocal. All it does is say that the adult does not care, or that they do not care enough to stand up for said gay people. You cannot have vocal homophobia on one side and neutrality on the other. Therefore it is important that foster parents can say that it's OK, and not just remain neutral.

On private families: private families are different. At the end of the day, with private families it is a negotiation between the prerogatives of the parents to bring their children up as they wish and the best interests of the child. And, as it should be, parents have the right to bring up their own children as they wish. When the state is bringing up children, however, it needs to do so giving them all the protection of the law. But foster parents - and potential foster parents - do not actually have any right over the children in their care, so the situation is different.

Basically, children in care DO care about minority rights because many of them ARE minorities! And the state, as parent over these children, has the responsibility to look after their rights FIRST. And as I have said, and I think others have said, I also think that foster parents unable to support a foster child's religion, and who, being vehemently anti-religion, could not tell them that religion was OK (even if they did not speak strongly about it), should also not be allowed to foster. It's about being able to support someone else's child in being or doing something that is OK according to the law - and not to do with how these things are viewed according to the morals of the person doing the fostering.

Great posts, PictureHouse and Grandhighpoohba.

Grandhigh, I agree. I am dismayed at how some posters have completely dismissed the suffering of gay children and young people, or suggested it isn't that bad.

It is FANTASTICALLY bad. If you don't believe me, look up the statistics on how many lesbian and gay teenagers commit suicide. Look at the website 'It gets better'. This is not about growing up feeling like a bit of a rebel because you're doing something you're parents are a bit shocked by. This is about growing up feeling that everything about you is wrong and disgusting and ridiculous, that the world hates you, that you will always be alone.

My vicar said to me, the first time we discussed homosexuality and Christianity, "It's degrading we're even having to have this conversation, isn't it?" He's absolutely right. The very fact of this thread is degrading to us all.

I think the rules will be tweaked once the numbers of religious foster carers fall

That implies that you think most religious would-be foster carers have the same inability as regrettably indicated by the Johns to put the needs of a child before their own prejudice.

I (an atheist) have a higher opinion of most religious people than that - that more genuinely want to be Good Samaritans than Pharisees.

sorry, I didn't mean there to imply most religious people were prejudiced - for a huge number this whole scenario isn't relevant anyway because they would be perfectly happy to say 'being gay is absolutely OK' in the first place.

Grimma; - I'm sure the number of (perspective) religious foster carers will fall. It's just not worth the hassle is it? Because if fostering is just 'a job' ( and not a particularly well paid one for the stresses involved ) why compromise your whole belief system for 'a job' They'll just go and work at Tesco's - and who could blame them.

Here is what a Christian Bishop has to say

He seems to believ that it is perfctly possible for Christians to foster, and to not have to compromise their beliefs.

Also - please take not: there has been NO BANNING, NO JUDGEMENT. Read the links, read the real story.

Carmina - the Jones brought the 'hassle' on themselves. And for most Christians, this issue wouldn't 'compromise their whole belief system'.

Read the wise words of the bishop

Ha ha - the link is from the Guardian - say no more.

And Y'know Grimma - you really don't have to be so patronising.
I guarantee I know more about this issue than you do

Have a nice day

What's so wrong with The Guardian, cb?

There's nothing wrong with it - in as much as there's nothing wrong with the Daily Mail.

eh? But the article is written by a Bishop in the CoE.
Have you read it, or are you simply prejudiced against this Bishop because he has written a piece of the Guardian?

There are Conservative and Liberals within the Church of England - I'll take a wild guess and say he's from the Liberal side - another day and another newspaper - different view.

You must have heard of Dr Michael Nazir-Ali.

The couple involved were on the one show today and the said

Their faith comes before the waelfare of any child

These people should be no were near kids may this washed in the 70s and 80s and fostered and we all know what happend in those days

.

I have now read the full judgment, and honestly anyone who is any doubt about this case should do the same. I had read (in the papers) that these were very experienced foster carers, but in reality they have fostered one child, many years ago. They had said they would 'gently turn around' a gay child. They had said they wouldn't take a Muslim child to mosque. The local authority concerned has a shortage of foster carers, but not of respite foster carers (which is what they were applying for). Oh, and they have not been barred from being foster carers: no ruling has been made.

It comes to this: if I was to provide respite care to this couple's child, I would be expected to (and would) support and sustain their culture and faith to the best of my ability. Short-term respite care is not an appropriate opportunity to undermine children's sense of self. In return, if they were to provide respite care to my children, I would expect them to support and sustain my children's self-esteem and loyalty to the values they were raised with. It's not too much to ask, is it?

maypole :shock:

I have read the judgement, and that was enough to convince me that the decision was the right one

There isn't a shortage of respite carers, so no childs welfare is going to be harmed in the slightest by the decision

Child welfare first, adults beliefs second, and you're on the right track

doh

I mean

maypole

After seeing them on the One Show its no surprise they aren't going to be given any more kids to care for.

It did make me wonder though, what about Muslim couples ?....homosexuality is strictly forbidden in that faith, in fact people get stoned to death for it in fundamentalist regimes.

We have people who are muslim and foster and thankfully their views are not so extream

Its like this i may be a vegaterian but should that stop me cooking a beef stew for you or work i a place that sell meat .

So its the same with our muslim carers they might not engage in gay relationships themselves but its not their issue to take on if somone elese is gay .

And they understand it might not be somthing they do but other people do it its legal and they understand that these are not their children and as long as they are carers they are to cherish that child and all the child holds dear.

Have they been asked the same question the Johns were ?

Somehow I doubt it.

Yes they are i am a foster carer and was on my course with two muslim couple and we had a whole session on are views on diffrent types of familes what we thought a family was and who made up a family,

We even had a dissusion about how we were going to manage our wider circle on challange views and perceptions and that we must be seen to be challanging out dated views whilest around the children we care for.

Sorry but you not a foster have not been through the year gurling selection process ad have no clue what your on about

If any thing those seen to hold a spercific view or belife say a vegan or a hindu are challaged about and tested on those views more so

Thank god english wasn't essential