New childcare study shows that....

[ladbrokegrove]

the under thress do best when looked after by their mums. Can't do links but it's front page Observer. I'll retreat without saying what I think about this one!

Well my dad stayed at home... as he worked from there and was around for us after school etc. However we didn't generally need him!

study schmudy.

Well I choose to work and I don't think my children have suffered as a result!

I think that the incidence of depression is much higher in SAHMs and worry that I would become similarly afflicted if I stayed at home. I don't think having a depressed mother is particularly good for young children either!

But as Custardo hasn't posted yet, I'll say it for her. If you can choose whether to work or not to work then you are one of the lucky ones - many women have no choice!

Roisin - ahem, GDS (halloween name now )

Expat - same here and that's what I'm lucky enough to have - a good network of friends so we are always busy and have somewhere to go, someone to see. If I didn't have that I can imagine life being very depressing tbh.

My daughter loves going to the childminders as there are other children there to play with. Although she loves playng with her dad and I we don't have the same imagination as children together and so as my 2nd baby hasn't arrived yet she loves playing with other children. Yes I feel guilty leaving her but when we get to the childminders and my daughter says - I'm going to be the doctor today and listen to Ben's chest with my stethoscope I think - how underdeveloped is my child? How many 2.5 yr olds know to listen to a chest and know the word for the thing to listen with? Under developec - no way. My child is more advanced than some at her age believe me. I have seen too many children hanging onto parents skirts/trouser not saying a word to anyone. Not for us thank you!

Soapbox ...
Where did you hear that 'the incidence of depression is much higher in SAHMs'?

For my part I've opted to be far poorer (much poorer), but stay at home. I'm not depressed. I was far less happy when I was trying to juggle work and mothering.

That said I know many women who manage the juggle very well. Hats off to them. I couldn't do it.

Spider - I said 'I think' - so was based on my own friends and from posts on here too!

Of course most SAHMs don't have depression but some do and in my trial period of SAHMdom which lasted about 6 months I felt I was sinking, fast...

MI...my DS would have to as well.

But I breastfed him, so he'd be streets ahead anyway

I agree that the best place for my sons when they are small is with me. I know that's contentious but that's my view on my family only, haven't really got a view on every other family out there as we're all different.

I'm a childminder and I look after the minded kids very well, but whatever the surveys say kids that aren't at home miss their home comforts, and judging by the way the kids are that I look after, they miss their mums as well. Sorry but it's true. I do my best to make them secure and comfortable and welcome in my home, but I'm not their mum and they know it. Breaks my heart sometimes.

I think sometimes something that is missing in these studies is the importance of work vs child to the mother. My mother worked for most of my childhood, but I always knew that I came firat. generally she worked around me, and if I needed her (broken arm, hospital for a week) work took a hike and she was there (dad was on a submarine so had to be her!)

It's only in adulthood that I've realised how many people- how many of my firends- had shitty childhoods and sometimes it seems to be related to other things (fun, work,realtionships, self gratification) getting in the way of the child. Now I work from home, I;'m out of the house - with 1 child in school, 1 at nursery and the baby being babysat for 1 day a week at least. But my children come first and they know that, and they appear happy with their lot (although MI eye contact is another issue- refuse to beat myself up about that one though).

It's hard to desgin a study that takes into account those sort of factors, but its my suspicion that they have a greater effect than what you actually do.

Jimjams this project actually had a lot of questionnaires for both parents about all sorts of attitudes, relationships, mental health, loads of stuff ... not just related to children and childcare.

ahh would be interested how that affected the results. My gut feeling is that it's important (although I'm sure people would lie ) I'll look it up and read the original- am interested!

If this report brings about improvement in nursery provision - then it will have been a useful exercise. OFSTED spot-checks have already started making a difference. Nurseries which previously brought in extra staff, to meet the reqired ratios for inspection days, can no longer do so.

If nurseries are run at well above minimum carer/child ratios, with low staff turnover and happy, valued, properly paid staff, children do very well indeed. The 'Key Worker' will never be mum or dad, of course, but will build up a close and loving relationship with a child. We run two nurseries and I'm constantly delighted and amazed by how much our staff obviously and genuinely enjoy being with children.

Interesting too that an excellent nursery nurse often does better with a child than a grandma (who has a blood link and familial bond.)

Our littlies know that there will always be a cuddle if they need or want it from a person that they know and trust.

My two have made very strong bonds with all of their childcarers from nanny2 onwards (not sure about nanny1). Ds (now in yr2) ranks his teachers in order of how much he likes them, and misses them very much in the holidays (we always have to give them end of term presents!). dd has been very influenced by some of her nursery teachers, and I know that they care for her very much - she always gets hugs and kisses from them if we bump into them locally (she is now at school). So I'm not sure that they have lost out at all during the period when dh and me both worked (dh now a SAHD). In fact I have a sneaking suspicion that nanny2 gave more attention that dh anyway (too busy on his computer) - although that could be sheer jealousy on my part! I work because I need my independance financially, emotionally and socially. My mum was a SAHM (mostly) and I do think she would have been happier if she hadn't been. I certainly didn't get picked up from school, read to etc (my big sisters did that!)

My mother was a working mother from when my sister was 18 months, I think (and I was four). We are OK.

My stepmother was a SAHM. Disastrous relationship with my half-sister. Who eventually moved out to live with my dad at age 12 (some time after the divorce).

I wouldn't make any grand conclusions about every WOTH/SAHM from that. Except that you can't generalise and say one is good, one is bad. Every mother and child is different.

As a childminder, can I please request that you all continue to go out to work (preferably full-time!!) and keep me in the manner to which I'd like to become accustomed ...

There are too many variables in a child's life or a family's life to conduct a proper study like this. I have chosen to work and see one of my reasons to work as being able to send my children to an excellent nursery. I think it's good for children and contrarary to many parents I would feel bad if my children did NOT have the opportunity to attend a good nursery.

Having grown up in Scandinavia, I never really understand why the British are having such a big issue with working mums and children in childcare. At home, I don't know anyone who doesn't work and have their children in nurseries and I can't say Swedish children are particulary aggressive, withdrawn, complaint or sad....

I do think the issue of 'quality of care'æ is an important one as well as parents ability to balance work and home-life.

Just want to point out that what is said in the report about nursery care and ratios is right. What leach is saying is that although childminders and nurseries have a 1/3 ratio for babies it doesnt work out like that! In a nursery where 3 staff can care for 9 babies what usually happens is 2 staff are off doing other things leaving 1 staff to care for all 9 babies in effect! This was certainly the case in the nursery that i worked in and was one of the main reasons i left and became a childminder where my ratio is NEVER more than 1/3 and although i do prepare food and go toilet etc I am always attentive to the children just like SAHM are!! I also have the added advantage of being able to take my young mindees to groups that they would not do if they were in nursery and they are able to mix with a wider circle of friends that way too! I also know my mindees VERY well compared to the children i cared for at the nursery! BTW 2 of my mindees have now come to me from my old nursery so childminding must be a more pleasing option!

Read this in the paper at the weekend and thought.... oh dear... some Mumsnetters will have a field day with this article.

It did emphasise that they were not suggesting that the only answer is for women to not work.... the person who conducted the 'research' siad it merely highlighted that there needed to be a change in the way Nurseries operate!

Think that its important to point out too that the person who wrote the report is biased towards childminders (as am i) as she is president of childminders assosciation! Although this doesnt mean what she says about nurseries is wrong!

lol Bonkerz - Really?? Well that does put a whole different slant on things doesn't it.

it does say this in the 5 paragraph down!

I didn't read the whole article very intently.

P Leach on Woman's Hour NOW