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New childcare study shows that....

147 replies

ladbrokegrove · 02/10/2005 10:07

the under thress do best when looked after by their mums. Can't do links but it's front page Observer. I'll retreat without saying what I think about this one!

OP posts:
berolina · 02/10/2005 12:22

I know Blackduck. Some people do find it hard to get their heads round - occasionally incl me .
In fact I'm sometimes a tiny bit when I see dh with ds - he is so fantastic with him and sometimes even makes me feel a tiny bit incompetent. However I figure that we have different 'styles' of parenting and both do ds good in different ways.

paolosgirl · 02/10/2005 12:24

Blackduck - DH was asked about childcare when he went for an interview. The woman that interviewed him (for a pretty high powered job btw) was pretty put out when he asked her "what do you do for childcare"?

Her answer was - "oh, he's my stepson, so his mother looks after him. I don't need to worry about that" . Needless to say the interview didn't go well after that and DH was not offered the job!

Blackduck · 02/10/2005 12:26

berolina - how true about different parenting styles....dp and I are very different, but as long as you are consistant about the major things and don't undermine each other then its a good thing - we are, after all, all individuals as well as parents...

hunkerpumpkin · 02/10/2005 12:26

Wasn't there a study that showed that two-year-olds benefited from nursery?

And one that said that if babies went to nursery from three months old, their immune systems developed better?

And one that says that people who spend a lot of their time worrying about how other people run their lives should chill out a bit

Blackduck · 02/10/2005 12:28

PG in my experience men do not get asked about childcare very often, where as for women (depending on the job) it always seems to come up....quite frankly it is none of their business (and I suspect it is probably illegal to even ask...)

aloha · 02/10/2005 12:29

immune systems yes, in E Germany, but i sure as hell don't want my baby in a e. german baby factory on the off chance it might prevent leukeamia later in life. and i honestly think it's a sign of a civilised caring society that we care about children, even if the aren't 'ours'.

hunkerpumpkin · 02/10/2005 12:31

Ah, what do I know? I go to work and leave DS unattended in the bathroom with only a fan heater and a Gameboy for company.

Blackduck · 02/10/2005 12:33

take that Gameboy off him NOW - don't you know they stunt your intellectual growth

hunkerpumpkin · 02/10/2005 12:35

He only plays educational games on it though

The thing with this is, everyone's circumstances are different, everyone's priorities are different and everyone's got a higher tolerance of either staying at home or leaving their child.

Janh · 02/10/2005 12:52

This is not "all mothers should stay home with small children" at all.

NB: "Leach insisted her findings should not be interpreted as a demand that mothers stay at home. Instead, she described it is as supporting a demand for 'developmentally appropriate high quality childcare'."

"She described the numbers of mothers not taking up references for child carers as 'staggering' and added 'there were mothers happy to leave a baby with an au pair, after one phone call conducted through an interpreter'."

"In addition, as part of their survey, Leach and her team observed nurseries in both areas. What they found raises further questions about the quality of care, she said.

'For example, a ratio of one member of staff to three toddlers may mean ... one employee on a break and another preparing lunch. This leaves one adult trying to cope with a large group of toddlers. And we are not talking about one bad nursery but a pattern across the country.'

By contrast, a childminder will have a maximum of three children under five in his or her care. Gill Haynes, of the National Childminders' Association, argued that the highly responsive care that the very young require is better delivered by childminders who are, often mature, have 'life skills' and are parents themselves. They also often provide one-to-one care which is thought to be better for children."

Also "Leach said the study indicates that not all babies and toddlers do well at home. Children of mothers suffering depression or having other priorities than motherhood fared better with childminders and nurseries. 'Mummy care isn't necessarily the gold standard,' said Leach."

She is arguing for improved childcare, not criticising mothers who don't stay at home.

Caligula · 02/10/2005 13:02

She is Jan.

Let's see how the daily mail report it tomorrow!

QueenOfQuotes · 02/10/2005 13:05

"She is arguing for improved childcare, not criticising mothers who don't stay at home."

Perhaps so - but the title of the article, and the first paragraph do make it appear that she's arguing that all mothers should stay at home and look after the children.

emkana · 02/10/2005 13:12

Tbh I always feel a bit uneasy about this "happy child = happy child" line. What about Kate Moss for example, who by all appearances is enjoying her life (or used to) with all the parties, drugs etc. She was happy with her lot, did that make for a happy child?
If you have a high-powered career woman who employs a hapless au-pair to look after her child, who isn't really that good with children - is that all right as long as the mother is happy? Really?
Or if you have a SAHM who enjoys pottering about all day, letting her child watch TV all day every day, or who only takes her child out for endless shopping trips with child strapped into buggy - is that all right because the mum is happy with her lot?

emkana · 02/10/2005 13:12

Happy mother = happy child

QueenOfQuotes · 02/10/2005 13:14

"Or if you have a SAHM who enjoys pottering about all day, letting her child watch TV all day every day, or who only takes her child out for endless shopping trips with child strapped into buggy - is that all right because the mum is happy with her lot?"

Oh - but that's ok you know - because babies do best with mother

mommie · 02/10/2005 13:15

a happy mother does equal a happy child imo, but not a selfish mother. that's the difference.

Nightynight · 02/10/2005 13:19

yes, agree mommie. my mother was happy and selfish.

Janh · 02/10/2005 13:22

QoQ, I agree that "Babies do best with mother" gives completely the wrong message - "Nursery childcare in UK often inadequate" would be much closer to what P Leach actually says (and flag what the issue is instead of making WOHMs feel bad again)

I am disappointed in the Observer actually. That is a very Daily Mail interpretation.

Lacrimosa · 02/10/2005 13:26

Just a though but why would you have children if you can't/ don't have time to be with them? I know it sounds really naive but I still don't understand why not just downsize? or maybe give some things up so you can stay at home?Why do we even need child care?

QueenOfQuotes · 02/10/2005 13:29

because some people - actually ENJOY working, and even more of a - WANT to work. In a large proportion of those cases (where it's not based on finances) a child will be very happy too, because the parent is more relaxed.

How many of us SAHM's can say that we give our children 100% attention all of the time? That we "never" get stressed or "annoyed" at our children. That we've "never" got to the end of the day and thought "I wish someone else could have them for a while".......

Some women (and their children) thrive on the hectic liftstyle that being a working mum brings! Others don't.

Lacrimosa · 02/10/2005 13:32

QoQ I'm glad that you wrote that, I had never thought of it that way , your right I know some parents that are better for being away from their children I just had never stopped to think of why someone would want to be away from their kids sorry

Nightynight · 02/10/2005 13:32

oooo Lacrimosa, this question has been addressed so many times on mumsnet...

Most people cant downsize, because they only have 2 or 3 bedroom places anyway, and they need 2 incomes just to pay the mortgage. Giving stuff up is not that simple, if you cant afford a holiday or eating out, or a second car or new clothes to start with. I have been stuck in this situation myself.

Lacrimosa · 02/10/2005 13:38

I have huge respect for anyone who is brave enough to use child care it must be very difficult especially if you did not personally know then before to leave your child, I am very privalliged(sp?) to stay at home and not to have to rely on anyone for child care I just honestly wondered why people do and what you wrote helps me understand why

Gobbledigook · 02/10/2005 13:40

QoQ - even though a SAHM may be doing other chores around the house and her focus is not on the child 100% of the day (and this is the case for both childminders and nurseries too ime), it is the parent that is always there if the child is upset, if they fall over, who reads that book or does the jigsaw with them when they want to, that does the activities when they do happen. For me anyway, that's vitally important.

For the most part, I don't think anyone cares for a child quite the way their parent does.

I agree with M2PW. Probably not the most popular viewpoint but mine nonetheless.

QueenOfQuotes · 02/10/2005 13:45

but GDG - discounting those parents who only see their child at weekends as they work extremely long hours. I'm sure that most working parents, spend probably about the same time as SAHM's actulaly "playing" with their child.

I probably spend (on average) about 2hrs a day, PURELY interacting with my DS's (ie not flitting around doing other stuff). Most working parents I know spend the same amount of time (some more ) giving their child undivided attention.

"For the most part, I don't think anyone cares for a child quite the way their parent does."

Oh wouldn't it be a lovely world if we could say catergorically that a parent always cares more for their child than anyone else does.........