Do you think it's worth it? Private schooling at what cost?

[indiechick]

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I'm intrigued by this woman, I think it's a bit contrived and apparently she has four children. But do parents really bankrupt themselves in this manner for private schooling?

But pisces, while I agree completely with most of what you say, isn't it the case that some areas don't HAVE a good state school??? Also I bristle a bit about the implication that HE is analogous to indy school; some kinds of HE, maybe, but other kinds are about giving more time to your children, and keeping them OFF the treadmill.

and I don't think there was a mad OP; the OP was drawing attention to a piece in the Daily Wail.

I think pisces' point is that if you can afford private school fees, then you are likely to be able to afford to live in an area which has a decent state school option. There may well be a minority of areas that genuinely offer no decent choice, but that's not true of most areas.

Of course, a lot depends on what your definition of 'good' is. If you can't bear the thought of your children being anywhere where some children might come from -shock horror- council homes, or might -shock horror- not achieve good results, then yes, I can see that the bubble of a private school provides the haven you want. Most parents though, are interested in how their own children are going to progress, not every other child in the school. No doubt there are some pupils at my children's school who will come out with low results, which may because a) they aren't very bright and those results reflect their true ability rather than being inflated or b) they haven't worked hard enough, despite the best efforts of teachers to encourage them. If those things don't apply to your own children, why is it a huge problem? Higher sets have bright, pretty well motivated kids in them and get good results. Why feel the need to pay if your children are going to get the same results without paying?

If you can afford school fees you can afford to move to an area of good state schools.It would be much cheaper and you can afford to have fun as a family.

The woman is deranged. According to Fellatio's calculations up there, she's putting out £48000 a year on private education for her two girls. If she put them in a good state school (perhaps the one that's good enough for her son), she could afford to give them private tution in any areas that she felt they needed it. In addition, they'd be able to travel (and I don't mean package holidays, I mean real travel), and travel is a great educator. As far as good manners go - that's up to HER to teach her children.

I've nothing against a private education - if I could have afforded it all my children would have privately educated. Instead I drove them ten miles morning and afternoon to get to the best state school in the vicinity.

Anyway, it's time she woke up and smelled the roses. What an idiot.

It is too much pressure on the DCs IMO-what if all those sacrifices have been made and they fail?

But you could say that about anything Pieces.

My own children do a lot of fairly high end sport and I come into contact with parents making lots of sacrifices to facilitate it.

Is that wrong? Is that pressure? Shuld they not do it?

Or children pursuing ballet? Or music? All require a hell of a lot more sacrifice than doing without a few holidays.

And what of the parents who, like the last poster, are prepared to drive twenty miles a day to get to the best school?
Or the parent prepared to slog their guts out in a horrible job for their family.
Or parents who give up a job they love because it's the only way to get what's best for their child?

violet - I think it's not about having confidence in one's children.

Rather it would be breathtaking arrogance to simply assume one's children will get their string of A*s, be uber confident, get a place in an RG uni and a well paid job at the end of it, by dint of my wonderful parenting.

You may feel utterly convinced that that is the birthright of your children, but many of us lesser parents worry for the future.

It is alright making sacrifices if you acknowledge that it is what you want to do and what the DC wants. I would just pity the person who has sacrificed everything and want the DC to aim for Oxford and the poor DC, knowing the sacrifices that have been made, can't say 'actually I want to be a landscape gardener, book illustrator, get a job straight from school etc etc. It is the same with sport, music etc-fine if supporting the DC but I think that there is many a DC trying to live the parent's dream.

I just know that if my parents had sacrificed so much for me the overwhelming feeling for me would be 'I can't let them down'.(even if they didn't feel it).

Litchick - didn't make this clear - I drove 40 miles a day. The school my girls attended was ten miles away. I know it's of no consequence to others, but I just wanted to correct that, thanks.

Anyway, to kind of 'answer' one or two of your points - it's all very well making sacrifices (these days I'm making them very very willingly for my grandchildren - I'd go to the ends of the earth, walk on water, etc etc for them)....but when other members of the family suffer because of these sacrifices (like the younger brother in the family we're talking about), then it becomes wrong. I think that what this woman is doing will eventually erode her own family life, not because her children 'fail', but because they will see they have been denied some of the basic things that most children have. They need their mother, not some crazed harridan who is afraid to check her bank balance - what on earth is that teaching them?

Oh I could go on for hours about this woman, and I did in RL the other day discussing this with some friends.

Need coffee........

I know plenty of people who make sacrifices to pay school fees - many of them are far from wealthy, but they feel it's justified and no-one can make that judgement but them.

But I think it's one thing working two jobs, or driving an ancient car, or going without holidays, to send your children to a mid-range independent school, but losing your home, going into horrendous debt, living on a financial knife edge, and having no peace of mind or quality of life as this woman appears to be, to put your children through a very, very expensive school where her DDs will be surely come out with a sense of being so much poorer than everyone else, is utter madness and blinkered delusion.

Just about everyone makes sacrifices-I was talking about OP.

My husband and I both went to state comprehensive, then university where we both gained PhDs and have extremely well paid jobs.

We could afford to send our children to private but choose the state school because I personally am not convinced that it is worth the money from my personal experience. I think the main advantage that it gives you is connections, the Queen's English and a sense of entitlement .

Natural intelligence, self-motivation, creativity, curiosity, drive, common sense, tenacity and a propensity to work hard is something you either have or don't. If you only can work hard or strive for something because someone is always pushing you to achieve these things, then what happens when you have to rely on yourself?

I believe what matters is what happens in the home, particularly as that is where children spend most of their time (private schools have longs holidays!) My children learn their manners at home, we read to them all the time, we discuss all sorts of things with them, we go for walks in the woods and they can point out a cherry laurel or cedar cypress tree etc. We spend time with them. They also attend a number of extracurricular activities both at school and out of school. This is often quoted as the one of the benefits of private school. However, most state schools I know offer this as well.

One of the criticisms levelled against state primary schools is that they are SATS factory. Well where I live, private primary schools could be accused of being 11+ and Common Entrance exam factories.

Parents should do what is best for them and spend their money how they wish. We do and if small minded people think we should use our income to pay for private education, I will just tell them to mind their own business.

I'm not sure I ever hear anyone telling us that we should privately educate our children if we can afford to, though I hear plenty of people telling us why we shouldn't!

Xenia perhaps?

But apart from that, MNetters are forming queues to tell you why you shouldn't.

If I had a pound for everytime I've been told
-it's a waste of money, private school is no better than state.

-conversly, it is morally wrong because I am buying privilege. Okay, which is it?

-there are literally thousands of privately educated pupils in dead end jobs or on benefits ( every MNetter knows at least two, personally)

-conversly, there are far too many privately educated people in all the top jobs, which means they have a sense of entitlement.

-I must tink my children are super special and not want them to mix with ordinary beings.

-In fact, I must think my children are rubbish and won't succeed without being spoonfed.

I'm sure there are a hundred other reasons that have been slung about.

Spot on Litchick - spot on! My all-time favourite is the theory that goes 'Failing or below-average state schools are held back because all the middle class parents keep their children out of them.'

Then, in the next breath:

'How dare you assume that middle class children are brighter, better behaved or have no more potential than working class children?'

Well it can't be both can it?

And the warped assumption that by privately educating my children I am somehow damaging the quality of the state system for other people's kids. I've asked for an explanation many a time, but I've never been given an answer that makes any sense.

Sorry that should be 'more potential' - not 'no more'.

Mariepuree- agree. The home is far more influential than the school. As for it being 'breathtakingly arrogant' to assume my children will get a string of A grades and get into RG universities simply by dint of wonderful parenting- what a bizarre idea! My children may not want to go to RG unis anyway. I want my children to achieve their potential and find their own path.... Not be hothoused into something beyond their capability, or pressurised into a particular path because I've paid for their schooling !

FellatioNelson I believe that some children who have had the benefit of a private education are educated beyond their natural ability and obtain A level grades that their state educated counterparts have more difficulty achieving. By doing this they are taking university places that others might have better potential for. Some universities have addressed this in their admission policies but the numbers from public school gaining places in top institutions show that their is still a long way to go. Not sure if that answers your question, my worries about private education are more about equality of opportunity.

there not their

I certainly experienced this when I went to University sue52. There are definitely some private school pupils who achieve grades that don't reflect their innate ability. I'm not sure it's just unfair on other students though - it's also unfair on the private school student who then finds themself on a course which may be beyond their capability, or in a career which is beyond them. And we certainly see a fair few examples of that in public life!

An odd thing here is that so many seem sure they've made the right choices, as opposed to Daily Mail woman. I find it quite strange that private or state, most are certain it was the right choice and refuse to admit they might have been better at whichever they didn't choose. I probably see more one kind of graduate of both than most, and the genralisations here - state is sensible, private gives you a sense of entitlement, state lets you find your own level, private is academically better or pushier - are just that, generalisations. I OTOH worry. I kinda assumed everyone did.

I appreicate the argument about getting better univeristy places, but I fail to see the logic in some people's argument that you can damage state education by keeping your affluent and/or bright child out of it!

Oh totally agree- I don't believe it damages state education by people paying to opt out of it.