Child benefit cut unenforceable

[mcquade]

It has emerged that the scrapping of child benefit for upper rate taxpayers is unenforceable and the Treasury is in a flap about, having failed to consult civil servants before making its headline-grabbing announcement. Yet another mess. Full story here:

blogs.wsj.com/iainmartin/2010/10/28/child-benefit-cut-unenforceable-treasury-in-a-flap/?mod=rss_WSJBlog&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

The loss of the EMA is an absolute disgrace.

a very good point MollieO - it would be Women earning HRT that would be hit if there were an 'honesty box' situation in place for male HRT payers

I guess with it being in the news more and more people are discussing it.

it's quite easy not to claim it, iykwim? dd2 was prem and it took me a year to realise that of course i hadn't returned the form. (and wtf is the form doing in that shitey bounty pack anyway)

I wondered how they'd actually do it, as in my case I'm the 40% taxpayer and DH claims child benefit but there is no connection between our tax records

so it can only hit HRT women mianly. Know thy station indeed.
But the cuts to the poor still remain.

Cameron and Osborne will be extremely reluctant to change course now. The child benefit cut is one of the few measures they can cite as evidence of their "tough but fair" approach. If they can't enforce it, then the IFS is further vindicated.

This is the kind of debacle that ensues when you try to govern by headline, making up policy on the hoof. Iain Duncan Smith must be furious.

I think they will do their best to still ensure that it happens as its the right thing to do and the Government won't want to lose face.

I think I'd be more suspicious, to be honest, if there were no administrative wrinkles to be sorted out given the volume and scope of changes that have been made. Making sure legislation works in practice means the parliamentary system is working. 2013 is a long way away and, specifics aside, there is already talk of wider reforms to the PAYE system in general. All kinds of checks and balances could be included in that.

It's amazing that it has taken so long for someone to articulate this difficulty clearly. I'm sure the cb changes will be quietly dropped, by means of a substitute policy wedded to the new universal benefit scheme.

High 5!

paranoid me says this is deliberate too. they have stated they're adding money onto the child element of tax credits (which is already means tested) and seemed unlike them. unless there was a reason - ie. they knew they were going to scrap CB for all.

I found it hard to believe that politicians might take such a long-viewed machiavellian stance WiF, but the more I think of it the more I think you might be right. It is like Thatcher's underfunding of British Rail -- take a state service that works; undermine it to the point where it seems inefficient and unworkable; then remove it.

As the great Jeremy Bentham said, 'never put bad political decisions down to intellectual inaptitude rather than moral inaptitude.' In other words if it looks like they are being stupid, they are probably being bad.

oh goodie
now they will just have to take more money of poorer family's and the vunerable to make up for it

your own fault you are poor 2shoes. you know that

I think they'll find a way round this as the notion of paying HRTs CB is ludicrous

Maybe they will have a rethink re the household issue. I'm happy to forego housing benefit if my neighbours do the same. Or maybe they could look at childcare costs and do it that way. By the time I pay that I am well under the HRT bracket but get penalised in a way that a two parent household with a SAHM and a HRT doesn't.

They could look at electoral registers for a start, or even do address searches on the HMRC database and match up those living there. not too hard!

Just summing up what was pointed out on the original threads - looks like we all noticed this before they did. I remember putting on a thread it would be impossible to police esp as lots of HR tax payers don't do SA Tax Returns. Idiots.

This has made my day - thank you. Am not a higher rate tax payer but just LOVE it when a Government cocks up like this. Our lives in their hands - great.

Exactly grumpy and as tempting as it may be to think that politicians are thick, they are not. Even if they are they have people advising them. They suggested this policy knowing it would not work.

My thinking is they wanted us to start to let go of the idea of a univeral CB before getting rid of it altogether and combining it with a tax credit.

And if I am right the threashold they suggested for tax credits is much lower than the threshold for child benefit. So fewer people will be entitled.

Or they have no intention of getting rid of CB for anyone and just said this so that they can take from the poor and say 'we are all in this together'. Couldn't believe they were hitting their voters in the first place.

yes vespian. they've put £30 on the child element of child tax credit - there's no way they were doing that without a reason, it's not their style.

they knew that when they announced end of CB they could say ah but look we've put extra money on CTC so those in need will be getting. am i too cynical? i just couldn't believe that £30 rise when it was announced, it's too un 'them'.

mind you they've cut the threshold so putting the £30 on does actually stand by what they said they'd do which is take it away from better off families and target more at those who really need it. but it won't be for free, i'm guessing it's their way round putting families under the poverty line when they cut everything else.

not sure, something's afoot, will be interesting to see how this pans out.