Poor forced from the city's centre!

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Am i alone in seeing if housing benefit is cut, and the poor are forced out of the cities, buy to let homes will go up for sale then the double dip recession (actually the third dip by my counting) will kill our housing market even more.

People act like only those who are out of work get housing benefit, and also that the poor or out of work don't deserve to have nice things and like like other human beings, getting really sick of it actually!

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/3106532/Londoners-2000-tax-subsidy-for-rest-of-UK.html

Bit out of date (2008) but actually overall taxes/economic activity paid in London subsidises the regions.

Alot of people voluntarily move out of London because they don't think its a suitable place to bring up children and for many it's just what you do when you start a family or when secondary school approaches.

However some do wish to bring children up in the capital. I live quite close to central london (about three-four miles away) but in a suburban looking/feeling area. I hope that my dcs prospects will be improved by living close to central London.

I feel I was disadvantaged by living so far away when I was growing up - in the type of family I come from - ie Im first to go to university etc first woman in my family to have a career of sorts.

Although my great aunt was in domestic service in Hampstead. Shows what my background is!!!

I moved to London twenty three years ago to impove my prospects and have no desire to move back to the provinces.

Despie being hard and expensive here I'm clinging on and would just feel it would be a very retrograde step for me personally to move away.

I do work btw, have a reasonable income but do struggle due to high cost of renting and living expenses.

My dcs also like living here.

weightwatchers you are pleased that someone you know has the choice of removing their children from school or living in a one-bedroom flat between 4? Really?

I am interested to know how people think the logistics of moving all of these people around will work. Buses do not seem like a long shot. How else are tens of thousands of people going to be moved all at once?

yep, this is the mentality that slides into fascism - satisfaction in others' distress and pulling them downwards, instead of seeing who is really taking us all for a ride. I find it terrifying.

the cap is perfectly reasonable. we live in a lovely part of SE London where you can easily rent a 3 or 4 bed Victorian house for under £400.

As this only applies to the private rented sector, the tenants do not have secure tenancies anyway - they are most likely to be on shorthold tenancies whre either party can give notice adter 6 months, so they are not in any case guaranteed to continue living in that same abode forever.

It's the destruction of social housing via the back door, the results will be seen in 3-10 years time.

It's not just about the cut in HB it's the new rules on rents, making them 80-90% of average rent prices in an area, a two pronged attack to hand all social housing, be it council or housing association properties in the capital over to greedy landlords.

In the short term it's not going to do much that the Tory voters will notice, more doss houses both of individuals living like students and families, that no one will notice, more people clogging up london transport for longer.

it's in the long run when the social housing is all gone from many parts of London people will notice and lets face it outside of the capital it's not really going to make much of a difference to anyone.

I've been thinking more about this today and just a thought but isn't it better for a family to be moved into a more affordable house so that if they can get back into work they might have a manageable rent which would make work pay.

MrsGhoul, you're correct and it's something that is considered a very bad situation to be in already because of the insecurity of private tenancies.

However just because we are already in a crap situation doesn't mean we appreciate the government making it even crapper, thanks all the same.

witcheseve property prices are linked to a large extent to where the jobs are. The cheapest housing is to be found in areas where there are no jobs.

To be clear, what worries me about all of this, is all of the children being removed from school and how that will affect them in the long term, that it has not been thought out where the families and children are going to go, and the deep suspicion of the real motivations behind all of this.

Why don't people like living in mixed neighbourhoods, out of interest? I think it is great, there is a mix of housing where I live, very greeny suburbia and some very expensive properties, right on the edge of some super-expensive properties, but there is some social and mixed housing here as well. I think mixing everybody up works well, I worry about the effect of sweeping less well off people out of sight of those with more money. I think it is easier to buy into the daily mail lines if you don't know anybody on benefits etc.

property prices vary massively in London, though, even within zone 2. from there any job in London is basically accessible.

i think this is much to-do about nothing. children get moved from school all the time. i went to several of schools as a child, because of my parent's economic migration.

people paying their own way must adapt to their circumstances.

If we're talking about some of the most deprived families in the country though, which we are, children who statistically will already be in for very poor life outcomes, I just don't see how removing them from everything they know and moving them to an area of even deeper deprivation is going to help. Some of these children will be struggling enough already without having to leave their friends, teachers they have built relationships with and extended families. It feels so much that they are being punished because some people disapprove of their parents.

Who is going to ensure that there are enough services, including school places, in the areas these children get moved to?

I really don't know how they are planning all of this, it is going to be a very big task, a lot of people being moved, have they earmarked areas where they are to go, let them know to prepare for this influx of people?

Which areas in zone 2 are you thinking of?

£400 a week would afford something nice round these parts!

I'm really torn between thinking why should HB pay for things that hard working poor can't afford, but on the other should we really being cutting up our city with have and have nots?

David DAvis was on Jezza Vine yesterday and if I had a pound for everytime he talked about the hard working poor verses the people who've just arrived getting a huge house I......well you know the rest. I do love a subtle attempt at Daily Mail style immigration shit stirring!!

We should not be cutting up this city (London) for sure. The mixed-up nature of it is what makes it so interesting and vibrant. All different sorts of people rubbing shoulders is good for them. Ghettoisation breeds fear and contempt, that's the main reason this policy scares me. I also mistrust the governments motives. And think it is extremely unfair for the children.

If they want to stop the handful of ridiculously expensive properties, then deal with them, do it individually. I think it's something like 100 families in London getting really high payments. Get the councils to build / sort out their derelict stock and gradually put people in there. There are loads of derelict properties in london, it's scandalous.

The reality is that the amount we spend on housing benefit has risen sharply in the last 10yrs and such rises would be unsustainable if our fiscal situation were good, given the deficit this situation needs to be urgently addressed and the amount we spend on housing benefit reduced. The cap is being set at a level where even in London you can get a house (admittedly not in the wealthiest areas but why should you if you are relying on the state) and whilst this may mean that people have to move, people move all the time and is a fact of life.

Can you show me the data which says that there will be enough stock in London, available for sums below the cap, and which will accept people on HB, to take all of these people?

That would go a long way to reassure me.

I don't think that data exists tbh

"the poor or out of work don't deserve to have nice things and like like other human beings"

It is not a question of "deserve" but a question of "afford".

If the poor can't afford to live in the city center, then they will not live in the city center. Living in the city center is not a human right. Those who afford it live there, those who don't live elsewhere.

Everyone deserves to wear the best clothes and drive the best cars imho, but only those who afford them do.

Everyone deserves ski holidays abroad, but only those who can afford them get them.

Do I need to go on?

London's councils have said that 82,000 are going to lose their homes, and presumably this will happen all at once.

In my whole borough, outer london and (I think) the largest borough in terms of population, there are currently 50 houses available which meet the cap. Presumably they will not all accept HB. That's not really enough to pick up the slack. It's going to be mayhem.

Where the hell are all these people to go?

They may not stay in London

Children in our society deserve stability, not to be uprooted and shoved from pillar to post because a lot of people don't like their parents.

I wonder if by the possible ghettoisation we cause more costs to the country than the policy would save in the short term?

Its not a matter of not liking their parents its the fact that the amount spent on housing benefit has ballooned out of control which we can ill-afford considering the countrys fiscal position.

Yes. So people will get sent away, to god knows where. Many will not be able to take their belongings as that costs a lot of money, especially if you are going a long way.

The areas that they will be sent to will be areas which already have deep and entrenched deprivation and big social problems.

Communities will be broken apart, extended families will be broken up, children will be taken from everything they know.

If this is the sort of society that people want then good luck to you. I think I am going to leave this thread now.

Please don't forget to hang out the bunting and sing a happy song when this all starts. Be glad in your hearts, you are full of the milk of human kindness.

Oh bollocks to your fiscal position huddspur, you and your kind are all loving it, teaching the no good scroungers a lesson.