And He's Off - David Cameron's Speech

[LadyBlaBlah]

Has anyone seen the young Tories in the crowd/being interviewed?

I thought William Hague at 16 was bad

He's good. Pity he's not a woman but we are getting more countries now with cabinets which are more female than male so it's all going fine.

Coherent and speaks well and what they are doing is great.

Richer mumsnetters bleating about loss of child benefit who live in a home with a higher rate taxpayer (which is only 15% of people) are much better off than those in households without a higher rate taxpayer. Labout got us into a huge mess with masses of debts and now we're sorting it out. You can't spend what you don't have. Every parent running a home knows that.

Like a lot of leaders, Thatcher got caught up in her own PR by the end but, what people often forget is just how bloody awful the UK was in the seventies. It was like the Soviet Union but with worse dress-sense and longer power-cuts. I remember when buying a new phone meant a long wait for the GPO to install one of just three different models, for example.

I know it's hard to believe and I know a lot of places subsequently suffered when nationalised industries fell by the wayside, but she was a breath of fresh air to many of us, keen to make the most out of life and enjoying the freedom.

no I didn't know it was St. Francis. I thought it was a bit too good for a political speech. Very interesting.

Claig, I can´t contain myself any longer. You are playing devil´s advocate and I´ve caught on to you. Also, please remember that the IMF got it WRONG - look it up! S&P´s got it wrong recently, also Moody´s in giving AAA status to the toxic "assets" that various banks had thought up and sliced up and sold on. And the IMF is giving out the wrong info - again.

The banks got us in to this mess NOT LABOUR ! Cameron is a twat from Eton and a typical Tory - rob the poor and working people whilst the rich get off scot free ! Get real £44000 is not a lot of money by the time you have paid mortgage, bills,. childcare. All the tories have done is shite on the family since they have come in !!!

Xenia - what a shame the current Cabinet only has 4 women in it. And none of those 4 is at all impressive. Sorry to go on about it but did you see Theresa May on Newsnight - "are you asking me on a date Jeremy"? WTF?

I don't remember the 70s, chil, but I do remember the 1980s and I am very frightened that we're heading back that way.

God help this country

We in a lot better hands than we were. However there is a huge amount of work to be done to change how people are, to change their view of being entitled rather than what their responsibilities, to move them from a culture where the state provides to where they largely are left free to provide for themselves. There are 5 years and possibly more. It will go well.

granmummy, the only devil's advocate is Ed Miliband.

I agree with you about Moodys and S&P, I think the whole lot of them were responsible, together with the FSA, Gordon Brown, the regulators etc. I think they were all aware of what was happening and turned a blind eye. I didn't believe progressive politicians, like Gordon Brown, I didn't believe the bankers and I didn't believe the IMF.

I do believe David Cameron, George Osborne and the coalition.

No we're not, xenia. You big fibber.

Xenia: "Richer mumsnetters bleating about loss of child benefit who live in a home with a higher rate taxpayer (which is only 15% of people) are much better off than those in households without a higher rate taxpayer."

This is demonstrably untrue though. I am the former - and emphatically not bleating about the loss of CB. Neighbours are the latter: both p/t in good jobs (so childcare covered), neither a higher rate taxpayer, household income higher than ours, keep CB.

I would say that (of course) both households are better off, but also that therefore both households should lose it.

I don't think that's as incomprehensible as all that.

Oh claig, you believe George Osborne? You poor duck.

It is not simple to do it any way other than how it is being done - higher rate tax payer household gets none. CB has worked because it's simple and not means tested. 85% of households will keep it. The rest will manage as they are fairly high earners. No cuts will ever be regarded as fair by anyone (and I'm a single mother who supports my children alone and will lose my CB).

George Osborne has been unfairly derided because he was a Bullingdon member. But his speeches are quite good. I think he has integrity.

I don't think that the only reason he is derided is because of the Bullingdon Club. Dave and Boris were both members, so I don't get that. Maybe because of his patronising smirk, squeaky voice and general obnoxiousness?

Yes, George is not blessed with the humour and charisma of Boris, but then neither was Gordon Brown. George is the target of attacks by lefties who dislike the fact that he is a toff. he is an easy target for Oxbridge educated journalists liek Johann Hari. I was influenced by all the negative opinions of Osborne and Gove. But after I listened to them, I thought they were good and had integrity. They are not very appealing, but they are good politicians.

ladyBlaBla you're a strange mixture of naive and overly cynical. there's no way Cameron could make up the tooth fairy story. Don't you realise that the media will begin tracking this little girl down immediately after the speech? of course no10 will help with this. if she doesn't appear posing for pictures in a newspaper in the next few days - most likely in one of the Sunday papers - then i'll apologise to you and eat my words, but i know how it works...if he made something like that up, it would take no time whatsoever for him to be found out, i assure you. it's much harder to catch politicians out on big things than on small stuff like that/

Tax credits are worked out on household income so why can't child benefit use the same system - the information on how much households earn must already be there?

Its all very well to say we are all in this together but people earning incomes in the 40s have already been hit by this government- 1. loss of tax credits (fine as promised in manifesto),

1. Not eligible for new personal allowance of 7000 (basic rate tax payers only will benefit whereas lib dem manifesto said that anyone earning less than 100,000 would benefit)
2. Freezing of threshold for higher rate tax
3. NI increase?

Are these measures not enough to squeeze the middle classes?

Now there will be the loss of child benefit too.

It appears to have got to the stage where some one earning 45k has no more disposable income than someone earning considerably less and claiming child benefit, tax credit, cost of childcare etc.
The tories are talking about incentives to earn more at the bottom end of salaries but are at the same time creating less incentive for people to earn more in the 30-50k bracket.

Those lucky enough to earn 80k have not lost out as much as those on 45k so the new proposals could not be described as progressive.

I also hate the way the tories are saying that it isn't fair for a person on a low income to pay the child benefit of someone on a higher income. Well most of those now on higher incomes with children were once on lower incomes and once paid for other people's child benefit. Those paying higher rate tax are paying enough tax to more than cover the cost of the child benefit they receive.

Furthermore if we are all in this together then I look forward to the announcement that pensioners who pay higher rate tax will not receive a fuel allowance as they don't need it and have wide shoulders.

MPs could also reduced their salaries to 44k as it is apparently more than enough to bring a family up on.

Gove is possibly the most slimy little man i have ever seen

"I do remember the 1980s and I am very frightened that we're heading back that way."

The ideology of the 80's was that private enterprise beat state-funded industrial monoliths, often loss-making but propped up doggedly at vast expense. Communities that depended on those industries 100% for eemployment (mostly in the North & Scotland) lost out heavily and many suffered as a result. Today we don't have the state-run industries to lose, and whilst the public sector is rather overinflated, it is not on the same scale or in quite the same geographic concentrations. The cuts will be severe but I think the effects will be more thinly and more widely spread

I think if we can inject the optimism of the early eighties back into what we do, we can not only survive but thrive.

But you never get sympahty as someone who is a higher rate tax payer given 85% of people manage on less. If we're saying if you earn £45k gross you have net the same as someone on £20k then that may be an argument but I don't think tax credits and child benefit have that effect. Someone else can do the sums I suppose.

noddyholder, I used to think that Gove was slimy too, and I would turn the TV off when he came on. But, after actually listening to him for a while, I had to admit that he was excellent. Again, it is integrity that counts. So far it looks like he has got it.

Claig - Osborne isn't a toff. In fact the real toffs look down on him because he didn't go to Eton, Charterhouse or Harrow, but "only" to St Pauls.

Sotough - I'm not so sure about the tooth fairy story either. Ronald Reagan told a very similar story oh so long ago.

He is a Harry Enfield character in the making

Really despise politicians involving children in politics. Wrong on so many levels.