When I heard that the City bonuses are going to amount to £7 billion this morning, I sincerely wished that someone somewhere would start a revolution

[nameymcnamechange]

Coming as it does after yesterday's Child Benefit announcement, I am beginning to feel positively anarchic.

I think there should be a General Strike over this, or at least a protest march in London.

yes outrageous
but half of that will be taken in tax, if that makes you feel any better. [http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11473352 here]

"City workers are expected to take home around £3.8bn, with the government taking £4.1bn - which includes national insurance contributions as well as the government's £3.2bn tax take on the bonuses."

here

And, if it was retained as profits, only c. 20% would go to the Treasury.

It doesn't really make me feel any better.

It is the principle of dishing out these outlandish amounts (on R2 it was said average bonus would be £70,000) and the psychological effect it has on the nation as a whole when we are being told we must all tighten our belts and the next few years are going to be very tough.

So now you have situation vaguely reminiscent of the conditions that led to the French Revolution. Decline in income, and some very real poverty and hardship among the workers, with the top 2% or 1% not only earning a lot more than everyone else, but being given huge amounts of extra cash just for doing their job. Not for being entrepreneurial or starting businesses or being creative, sporty or talented. Just showing up at the office every day and doing what they are already paid handsomely for.

It sickens me.

Why are the banks generating enough excess for bonuses when in other industries people are facing pay cuts?? Why?

The problem (I think) namechange is that everyone is hoping someone else will start a revolution.

Yet diddn't it say in the news yesterday that that some banks are going to need bailing out as they are in trouble?
However I honestly think it is disgusting . This should be capped and excess money used to benefit charity or similar

I agree - the timing was dire and the fact that banks are still failing to support small businesses makes it worse.

I suppose the banks' justification would be that they need to dish out these bonuses to retain top staff - but if all banks agreed to reduce bonus levels then retainment wouldn't be an issue.

Yes, I'm too busy to do it. I'm looking for work to prop up our dwindling household income, which now is not enough to keep us all going, despite my dh's business ticking along nicely.

If you want to organise a march I will come, but maybe not in the City.
I remember being a 19 year old trainee in the city earning fuck all and having to send home to my mum, my dad was a unison organiser and I promised him I would cheer the people on the miners march.
Then I got spat at and had to leg it because of what I was being called .

If you want to protest the city bonuses maybe go to Highgate or Chelsea - maybe outside the Ivy. Just don't shout at the cleaners and the waiters...

David Cameron was talking about it on R4 this morning. He said they'll be watching them v closely, yes indeedy, or words to that effect.

So that's alright then. No doubt the banks are really worried now. Not

Obviously, I'm biased as I work in finance. FWIW, I get no where near £70k bonus.

For a start, in any bank, on 1/3 of the staff are actual "front office staff" (that is, bankers). The rest is support staff, middle and bank office (IT, operations, catering, PAs, legal, compliance, audit, accountants etc. etc.)

Big bonuses go to those who earn the bank big revenue. One of the heads of depts at my old employer was paid millions in bonuses every year, but he generated EUR6bn in revenue in about three years. If you don't compensate that sort of work and talent, they go elsewhere.

Generally, junior staff don't get much - a junior M&A banker will typically be working 9am to 1/2am every day during the week, and weekends. Starting salary is around £35k. One intern I know in M&A is pretty much eating sandwiches for every meal, as she only gets about 10 minutes for lunch around 4pm. Only after you've done about ten years of that (and not seen friends, family very much, no social life) do you get to the point where you're given a bonus that is multiples of your salary and you start working normal-ish hours. DP also works in an investment bank, not as a banker, and he's on day 7 of working a row - and has been working at least 12 hours a day for the last month.

Banks also sponsor things like art galleries, museums, sports events (e.g. Ryder Cup, World Cup). In my area, we actually end up doing a lot of the work that the government should be doing (around preventing illegal arms trading, bribery, corruption etc.) but don't have the resources or staff to do. The industry also ends up writing a lot of legislation on behalf of the government in my area (as again, the government doesn't have the expertise to do it).

Finally, London is rivalling NY to be the largest financial centre in the world, and is definitely the largest financial centre in Europe. This means that the financial sector (including law firms, accounting firms, consultancy etc. etc.) is bringing in revenue from other countries, as corporations in say Germany will use Deutsche or Commerz bank, but a lot of the grunt work (and the booking of revenues) will go to London.

I say call their bluff and if all the bankers go off abroad in a strop because they didn't get their bonuses then good riddance. There's surely a layer of fresh financial talent waiting to take their jobs who might be more grateful for having a job at all, and who might have a little more of an eye on their social responsibilities.

Nothing terribly lucid to add, but just wanted to say it was good to read your posts, namymcnamechange. There's something isolating about hearing things on the radio, feeling powerless about it, and having no way of articulating the feeling of outrage.

But reading you putting it into words was quite uplifting. I'm seething too. The whole CB thing has pissed me off to the nth. The rhetoric about "all in this together" has me hopping. And this charming piece of news, I think, exposes the crapness.

Quodlibet - you don't really want that to happen, the City supports a HUGE workforce of people beyond the big bonus bankers, and if the industry moves elsewhere, that's a lot of people out of work. Its not a case of new talent coming in, the banks will just move their operations elsewhere where they ARE allowed to pay large bonuses.

Abs, it isn't all like that

my friend works in the city
i flat-shared with him for the first 10 years of our working life
i did WAY longer hours and more stress in my marketing job than he ever did
he was, and still is, home for neighbours every night.
his bonus will be pushing 7 figures.

yes he is clever, but we were in uni together, just made different choices. He feels completely justified in his earning and goes on about how much money he makes for his bank and how much he gives to us/the govt (in tax)

and he is not a wanker, a really nice guy actually so God knows what the twats really think.

this society is screwed.

Agree op what will it take for us to revolt!

People who see themselves as successful always are under the illusion that it is something inherent in them - their brilliance - that got them there. It is the Fundamental Attribution Error.

It is however circumstances that are the major factor.......which is generally why so many people hate the conservative way of doing things - looking after the Bullingdon boys etc.

As for revolution. I am totally up for it.

HOwever, the days of marching are over. They don't achieve anything. We need to get creative, use technology and the little power we have.

I have a few ideas brewing.

I didn't way it was all like that. I was just saying that very often, most people actually have no clue what goes on in investment banks, how they're structured, everything they do.

I have been verbally abused by people simply because I work in an investment bank. If I was doing a similar thing to what I'm doing in say, a charity, or a government department, I would be considered to be quite lovely, but because of the banking thing ...

I agree - there are people who are overpaid in banks (as in other industries - footballers spring prominently to mind). There are complete wankers who work in banks (I have worked with many arses), there are complete wankers working in other areas.

There will be strikes, I'm sure of it.
A couple more years of this - it's inevitable.

What exactly is the problem and what exactly do you want to do about it?

Businesses and individuals within them have met certain goals and objectives and are paying out the bonuses that they are contractually compelled to do.

Also note that the bonuses are less than last year and less than their peak in 2007.

And as already said remember that the Government will take a hefty toll on those bonuses in tax.

So what do you want to do? Do you really want the Government to be allowed to step in and tear up employment contracts if the public has some fuzzy feeling that it's "just not right"?

The Financial Services Sector is now the real engine driving this country, they pay a massive proportion of the Government's total income and basically keep this country afloat. Which is why we had to bail them out, we've let ourselves become a one trick pony and if that pony drops dead this country is in serious trouble.

And now you want to take the one real industry that we have left and give it a good kicking out of some sense or moral outrage?

It's not right that financial services is the main wealth engine for the country, it shouldn't have been allowed to happen and we need to make changes in the future, but right now we are where we are.

Don't shoot the only horse that's capable of pulling us out of the hole that we're in no matter how stupid an idea it was in the first place to shoot the other horses that we had.

Thank you ComradeAnimula .

I am not exaggerating when I say I don't think the social divide in this country needs to widen much more before the serious protests start.

I live half a mile from a neighbourhood populated by the super-rich. And a mile in the other direction from one of the poorest boroughs in the whole country. I feel uneasy.

At least the bankers won't be getting child benefit

Could there not be some kind of blanket cap on bonuses, much as there has been on benefits...then nobody would 'go elsewhere' as there would be nowhere else to go that gave out bigger bonuses.

Or is that totally missing the point?

"The Financial Services Sector is now the real engine driving this country,"

ROFL

You really don't get it do you?

If you said they appeared to be the engine but then we realised that they totally fucked it up and actually we should be diversifying elsewhere, then that would make sense

But to AGAIN put all our hopes on a totally fucked up system is LUNACY

Definition of lunacy is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result

The banks will BUST us again. It doesn't work. Stop blindly supporting them.

And why do they support them? Well, we all know the answer to that.

BossofMe I think that's just another threat to maintain the presumed right to receive large bonuses in an industry which has been bailed out by the tax-payer.

Why would the entire industry have to move elsewhere? Where is this idyll that the entire banking sector is going to decamp to? That's a massive infrastructural shift. I just don't think it would happen. There are other incentives to living in Britain which keep people here. It's just a good sword to wield over the heads of people who are saying that bonus culture isn't acceptable.